[ExeterLUG] Schools/STEMnet/DBS checks

[Paul Sutton]

On 16/03/14 11:20, Mark Evans wrote:
> On 14/03/14 12:27, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>
>> Just FYI, and for others on the list:
>>
>> As a STEMnet ambassador with a STEMnet issued DBS check, I would have to
>> apply for another DBS check to do any voluntary work in any Devon County
>> Council School.
>>
>> This applies to all STEMnet ambassadors with STEMnet issued DBS check
>> certificates for all Devon county council schools.
>>
>> I have had this confirmed by Phil Barrett, Team Leader Safer Recruitment
>> Service from Devon CC. (Who had never heard of STEMnet nor code club )-:
>
> Maybe you should send him the bill.
>>
>> I have asked STEMnet to look into this too.
>>
>> But DCCs stance is that the update service (which all STEMnet
>> ambassadors were encouraged to subscribe to) is nine months out of date
>> and therefore not acceptable for use in DCC. (I have asked the update
>> service for clarification on this)
>
> http://www.clerktogovernors.co.uk/dbs-checks-the-new-name-for-crb-checks/
>
> Has some interesting things to say on this matter.
>
> A question I have never received an adequate answer to is how
> Police/CRB/DBS checks can be applied to anyone from outside the UK.
They can via interpol, the same way as if you go overseas to work they
can use the same system to check you.
>
>
> In the case of ISCA, St Lukes, St Peters, West Exe and Wynstream that a
> side effect of the PFI set up is to allow all sorts of people
> unconnected with either the school (or DCC) unsupervised access would
> seem to be far more of a concern than national educational initutives.

There are a few companies out there that come in to schools to run PE
for example, these companies do their own checks in the same way an
agency would.,
>
>
>> If West Exe is an academy school then they may have their own
>> guidelines, or they may simply defer back to DCCs rules. I'd need to
>> know before going on-site.
>
> It isn't even that simple. A school's status with an LEA can depend very
> much on its history.
> There's also the possible issue of "guidelines" being treated as
> "rules". Notwithstanding the maxim "Rules are for the guidance of the
> wise and the blind obedience of fools."
>>
>> I've just been through all this with another school I had volunteered to
>> help run code club with. Phil Barrett is adamant that I must re-submit
>> the data for another DBS check, however it means that that school will
>> have to pay for another DBS check for me.
>
> Or he's simply misinterpreting the "rules". Something which commonly
> happens with so called "jobsworths". (Even to the extent that such
> misinterpretations can be mutually exclusive with the actual
> rule/guideline in question.)

I agree,  the update system is meant to reduce this extra paperwork and
actually benefit schools.   The volunteer DBS is free anyway, but they
can simply use the update service which will tell them nothing has
changed since it was done and that certificate was registered with the DBS,

I read through the info on this a while back, its simple and in black
and white,  I can't understand why these people don't understand it.
>
>> I have decided to refuse to go through the process again purely on the
>> grounds of unnecessary bureaucracy. (I've held an enhanced CRB/DBS check
>> certificates for the past 9 years so am hardly likely to fail - this is
>> purely a stance against the bureaucracy)
>
> There have been cases of people making multiple applications and getting
> different results back. Such systems will always generate "false
> positives". (Especially if there is a lack of an effective feedback
> mechanism to deal with these when the occur.)

Well the DBS system you get sent the disclosure,  Not the employer even
though you then show it to them, they get informed IF there is something
relvent, as in you are on a barred list,   you remain in control, you
can see who has used the update service, how often, you can add / remove
them, as you wish.  It is your personal information,  (even if it does
say none recorded for everything) , this helps if there is a problem you
see it first then get it sorted out.,  It is equally about protecting
the applicant from discrimination, a criminal record is not a barrier to
working in schools, only certain offences,



So far as "bureaucracy" goes the whole CRB/DBS probably isn't "fit for
purpose" in the first place. Since the Bichard Inquiry seems to have
been more concerned with Huntley's job in a school, which wasn't
relevent in encountering his victims. Whilst ignoring Carr's behaviour,
which directly lead to the victims going to Huntley's and Carr's home.

(It's certainly not the only case of a system being put into place after
something bad happening probably wouldn't have done much to prevent the
whatever it was. Nor would be effective at preventing something similar
happening in the future. The reason such systems can appear to "work" is
that the nasty people they supposedly "target" are both incredibly rare
and resourceful enough to commit some different, but equally, horrid crime.)

Bruce Schneier coined the term "security theatre" to describe such
things. About the only thing they can possibly do is make the ignorant
feel better.

IMHO the issue of staff who are "over-friendly" with their students has
not really been addressed. Probably because it is difficult to know
where to "draw a line" here. Even in cases where the staff and students
do not have any interactions and connections outside the school.
(Possibly teachers, especially women, raping teenagers is considered
acceptable by the PtB. So they will only consider acting next time there
is a murder. Most likely with a "more of the same" response. Rather than
considering the actual effectivness of the CRB/DBS idea.)


There is no quick fix,  what is needed is to make schools safe so that
when a problem is reported it is dealt with,

Paul




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