[Blackpool] HDD data recovery

James Page jmsp.1983 at gmail.com
Sun Feb 7 20:59:55 UTC 2016 

So, the latest in this HDD-related drama is that, according to a couple of data recovery gurus, it’s highly unlikely to be PCB-related. Boo.

After chatting to some storage specialists, I came round to the idea of using a WD Red disk instead of a Toshiba - mostly because the support available for Toshiba is abysmal, apparently.

I wouldn’t even want to contemplate what data recovery costs would be if I had an SSD!



J


> On 6 Feb 2016, at 09:20, Arthur Garlick <arthur_garlick at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Red failed more than Green like for like in that data. 
> 
> 
> Let me know if I am right about the board should respond with something even if the other parts of drive are busted. A guess on my part, a quick look and I couldn't find anything that backs that idea - it just seems the way it would be designed.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 6 Feb 2016, at 00:30, James Page <jmsp.1983 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think the factor there is that the disks will likely be in frequent use,
>> so they aren't spinning up and down so often. Because this particular
>> family of Greens aggressively park the head after short periods of disuse,
>> there's apparently a greater risk of wear and tear to the mechanical
>> elements. Ironically, I would guess that the more intense use is what gives
>> them a better rep at Backblaze.
>> 
>> Anyway, the board - I'll look in to that further. That would be wonderful
>> if it was the board, but I'll see what the HDD Guru forum peeps think.
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> James Page
>> 
>> --------------------
>> Sent from my mobile device
>>> On 5 Feb 2016 8:48 pm, "Arthur Garlick" <arthur_garlick at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well surely the board should talk nicely to the diagnostics even if the
>>> moving parts of the drive are broken or even missing altogether? If the
>>> board isn't talking nicely it's broken or bad power.
>>> 
>>> I didn't want to look at any stats, the "I" in RAID is a lie, and I am all
>>> in with WD Red!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I looked and those stats don't support WD Greens are bad at all.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> After an average 70 months running failure rate of WD Green was 2.48%,
>>> after 45 months one of the hitachis had 1.91% fail rate.  Where those stats
>>> are totally bogus is that these fail rates are in the same column like they
>>> are like with like, the graphs are bogus too, they compare disks that have
>>> been spinning for 6 years with disks that have been spinning for a year.
>>> The WD Green achieved 0% failures some years even after a few years
>>> running, whereas the hitachis always had failures even in the first year of
>>> use.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The graph says in 2015 more 6 year old drives failed than 2 year old
>>> drives... NS Sherlock!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Was just about to comment to call them on the bogosity of the graphs, but
>>> other people already have.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> Arthur
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On 5 Feb 2016, at 15:23, James Page <jmsp.1983 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately, the issue with DLG is that it requires the system to
>>> recognise the device in the first instance - it’s just not being read as a
>>> drive. It will occasionally be recognised as a storage device of some kind
>>> that needs initialising.
>>>> 
>>>> I’m inclined to eliminate the board based on others’ feedback elsewhere.
>>> I think there’s a vague possibility of a power issue, but that’s really
>>> going out on a limb. Thing is, I could buy a donor disk, swap the board and
>>> find it’s not the board, and I’d just have another junk WD Green disk (i.e.
>>> one that I wouldn’t trust enough to use for anything other keeping a door
>>> open).
>>>> 
>>>> Re brands and failure - have you had a look at Backblaze’s period stats
>>> and analysis? Somewhat handy in an otherwise opaque, opinionated storage
>>> world where the only consensus is over the reputation of Maxtor (RIP)!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> J
>>>> 
>>>>> On 5 Feb 2016, at 14:12, Arthur Garlick <arthur_garlick at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think Boards of Canada released the sounds your drive makes as a
>>> single.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Considered swapping the hard disk board?  Have you totally eliminated
>>> the board as the culprit?  I'd be surprised if the WD DLG diagnosis tool
>>> can't tell you definitively if it's the board or the moving bits just by
>>> chatting to the board.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ...All I got.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a life of file detritus on a 4x WD Red RAID, don't be shaking my
>>> faith in WD!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> 
>>>>> Arthur
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: jmsp.1983 at gmail.com <mailto:jmsp.1983 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 13:02:15 +0000
>>>>>> To: blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk <mailto:blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blackpool] HDD data recovery
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On a scale of ‘unicorns and rainbows’ to ‘burning pits of Hell’, I’d
>>> place it at ‘dire’. This is definitely mechanical rather than logical.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Here’s the text of a post I made on a forum, giving a bit more detail,
>>> along with a Soundcloud link to a recording:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have a 3TB WD Green disk that was bought as part of a WD Elements
>>> external HDD. The external HDD was used for a home media server and was in
>>> use for approximately 60-120 minutes per day. It's around twelve months old.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Recently, the disk appeared to show signs of failure, that I've only
>>> recognised in retrospect - directories would show as being inaccessible,
>>> but I put this down to permissions issues with the server, rather than the
>>> disk. The permissions issue would resolve itself by restarting the server.
>>> Eventually, the HDD wouldn't show at all. However, when I plugged it in to
>>> a different computer, it worked fine. I thought this could then be an issue
>>> with the server (an ancient laptop) and its USB ports (even though the WD
>>> Elements has its own power supply). I tried a USB Y-cable with the HDD's
>>> SS-USB cable and once again it worked. However, after a week or so, videos
>>> being streamed from the server would fail and the drive stopped being
>>> recognised, so it looked like it might not be a power issue.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've since tried the Elements unit on different computers, as well as
>>> removed the HDD from the unit to try in a different external case (with
>>> different power supply and USB cable). All it does now is spin up and spin
>>> down several times before giving up (using the Elements interface) or just
>>> continually spins up and spins down (using an alternative external
>>> interface); with the latter, if it's left on for an extended period it can
>>> eventually spin up and stay spinning for 20-30 seconds before spinning
>>> down. Other than some occasional light clicks at the peak of it spinning
>>> up, there is none of the normal clicking that I might expect to hear from
>>> it. After a short while, I'll get a dialogue box telling me "The disk you
>>> inserted was not readable by this computer", which I assume means something
>>> is recognisable.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've installed Smartmontools but can't get anything useful from it. I
>>> think the device is recognised as /dev/disk2, but when I try to run an
>>> interactive session on it, I get the error "Smartctl open device:
>>> /dev/disk2 failed:"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've made a recording of the activity. It's not great quality, but
>>> hopefully it can provide an indication of disk activity:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://soundcloud.com/j7e/western-digital-wd30ezrx-failure <
>>> https://soundcloud.com/j7e/western-digital-wd30ezrx-failure> <
>>> https://soundcloud.com/j7e/western-digital-wd30ezrx-failure <
>>> https://soundcloud.com/j7e/western-digital-wd30ezrx-failure>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’ve found a couple of specialists in Manchester and one online who’s
>>> suggested that it looks like head failure. Depending on the condition of
>>> the platter, data recovery is possible. With the WD disks, though, they’re
>>> notoriously more difficult to work with, which can bump prices up a bit.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Some advice for anybody looking to break in to a lucrative career -
>>> get in to data recovery!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> J
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 5 Feb 2016, at 11:58, @surlydev <surly at surlydev.net <mailto:
>>> surly at surlydev.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have spinrite and was going to suggest it but James' email made it
>>> sound like the disk was rattling or worse.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How bad is it James?
>>>>>>> From: Arthur Garlick <mailto:arthur_garlick at hotmail.com <mailto:
>>> arthur_garlick at hotmail.com>>
>>>>>>> Sent: ‎05/‎02/‎2016 09:44
>>>>>>> To: James Page <mailto:jmsp.1983 at gmail.com <mailto:
>>> jmsp.1983 at gmail.com>>; Mike Hull <mailto:blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk
>>> <mailto:blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blackpool] HDD data recovery
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I listen to the Security Now podcast
>>> https://twit.tv/episodes?filter[shows]=1636 <
>>> https://twit.tv/episodes?filter[shows]=1636> which has Steve Gibson on it
>>> (proper tin foil hat guy, hoot to listen to when he speaks about Internet
>>> of Things especially) his product is this:
>>> https://www.grc.com/spinrite.htm <https://www.grc.com/spinrite.htm> he
>>> makes some big claims and I've been sceptical but having listened to him
>>> talk for years, he knows his stuff and I'd give it a try if I had a disk
>>> failure. But not for a total mechanical issue as you said.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I will be at the makerspace tomorrow, coding has started on the big
>>> robot and I have a little robot that I am going to finish.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35442969 <
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35442969>
>>>>>>> Listening to Bill Gates desert island disks, right now, what a guy -
>>> who has done more for humanity... Gates or Torvalds?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 18:16:26 +0000
>>>>>>>> From: jmsp.1983 at gmail.com <mailto:jmsp.1983 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk <mailto:
>>> blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk>
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blackpool] HDD data recovery
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Don't suppose any of you can recommend a local/regional specialist
>>> who
>>>>>>>> deals in HDD data recovery, can you? I know there are plenty out
>>> there, but
>>>>>>>> I don't know which are reputable and affordable (big emphasis on the
>>>>>>>> latter). It's a mechanical issue, so software recovery is out of the
>>> window.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> PS - don't buy Western Digital!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
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