[Blackpool] HDD data recovery

Arthur Garlick arthur_garlick at hotmail.com
Mon Feb 8 10:59:01 UTC 2016 

You are always very thorough in your research James, to hear you'd go for WD Red next makes me happy.  

We are so reliant on these drives, my WD Reds have been going for about 4 years, perhaps I need to think about this more.  I could sneak another QNAP NAS in the office and have it mirror my home NAS.  Two RAIDs, one off site is the way - or is that like having a double layer of tin foil hat on...


I am at Preston Hackspace tomorrow night, I'll take the Kalman filter robot and a new little robot I am building with the PyBoard.

Regards
Arthur> From: jmsp.1983 at gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 20:59:29 +0000
> To: blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [Blackpool] HDD data recovery
> 
> So, the latest in this HDD-related drama is that, according to a couple of data recovery gurus, it’s highly unlikely to be PCB-related. Boo.
> 
> After chatting to some storage specialists, I came round to the idea of using a WD Red disk instead of a Toshiba - mostly because the support available for Toshiba is abysmal, apparently.
> 
> I wouldn’t even want to contemplate what data recovery costs would be if I had an SSD!
> 
> 
> 
> J
> 
> 
> > On 6 Feb 2016, at 09:20, Arthur Garlick <arthur_garlick at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Red failed more than Green like for like in that data. 
> > 
> > 
> > Let me know if I am right about the board should respond with something even if the other parts of drive are busted. A guess on my part, a quick look and I couldn't find anything that backs that idea - it just seems the way it would be designed.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> >> On 6 Feb 2016, at 00:30, James Page <jmsp.1983 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> I think the factor there is that the disks will likely be in frequent use,
> >> so they aren't spinning up and down so often. Because this particular
> >> family of Greens aggressively park the head after short periods of disuse,
> >> there's apparently a greater risk of wear and tear to the mechanical
> >> elements. Ironically, I would guess that the more intense use is what gives
> >> them a better rep at Backblaze.
> >> 
> >> Anyway, the board - I'll look in to that further. That would be wonderful
> >> if it was the board, but I'll see what the HDD Guru forum peeps think.
> >> 
> >> Best wishes,
> >> James Page
> >> 
> >> --------------------
> >> Sent from my mobile device
> >>> On 5 Feb 2016 8:48 pm, "Arthur Garlick" <arthur_garlick at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Well surely the board should talk nicely to the diagnostics even if the
> >>> moving parts of the drive are broken or even missing altogether? If the
> >>> board isn't talking nicely it's broken or bad power.
> >>> 
> >>> I didn't want to look at any stats, the "I" in RAID is a lie, and I am all
> >>> in with WD Red!
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> I looked and those stats don't support WD Greens are bad at all.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> After an average 70 months running failure rate of WD Green was 2.48%,
> >>> after 45 months one of the hitachis had 1.91% fail rate.  Where those stats
> >>> are totally bogus is that these fail rates are in the same column like they
> >>> are like with like, the graphs are bogus too, they compare disks that have
> >>> been spinning for 6 years with disks that have been spinning for a year.
> >>> The WD Green achieved 0% failures some years even after a few years
> >>> running, whereas the hitachis always had failures even in the first year of
> >>> use.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> The graph says in 2015 more 6 year old drives failed than 2 year old
> >>> drives... NS Sherlock!
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Was just about to comment to call them on the bogosity of the graphs, but
> >>> other people already have.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Regards
> >>> 
> >>> Arthur
> >>> 
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>> 
> >>>> On 5 Feb 2016, at 15:23, James Page <jmsp.1983 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> Unfortunately, the issue with DLG is that it requires the system to
> >>> recognise the device in the first instance - it’s just not being read as a
> >>> drive. It will occasionally be recognised as a storage device of some kind
> >>> that needs initialising.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I’m inclined to eliminate the board based on others’ feedback elsewhere.
> >>> I think there’s a vague possibility of a power issue, but that’s really
> >>> going out on a limb. Thing is, I could buy a donor disk, swap the board and
> >>> find it’s not the board, and I’d just have another junk WD Green disk (i.e.
> >>> one that I wouldn’t trust enough to use for anything other keeping a door
> >>> open).
> >>>> 
> >>>> Re brands and failure - have you had a look at Backblaze’s period stats
> >>> and analysis? Somewhat handy in an otherwise opaque, opinionated storage
> >>> world where the only consensus is over the reputation of Maxtor (RIP)!
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> J
> >>>> 
> >>>>> On 5 Feb 2016, at 14:12, Arthur Garlick <arthur_garlick at hotmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I think Boards of Canada released the sounds your drive makes as a
> >>> single.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Considered swapping the hard disk board?  Have you totally eliminated
> >>> the board as the culprit?  I'd be surprised if the WD DLG diagnosis tool
> >>> can't tell you definitively if it's the board or the moving bits just by
> >>> chatting to the board.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> ...All I got.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I have a life of file detritus on a 4x WD Red RAID, don't be shaking my
> >>> faith in WD!
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Arthur
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> From: jmsp.1983 at gmail.com <mailto:jmsp.1983 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 13:02:15 +0000
> >>>>>> To: blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk <mailto:blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blackpool] HDD data recovery
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On a scale of ‘unicorns and rainbows’ to ‘burning pits of Hell’, I’d
> >>> place it at ‘dire’. This is definitely mechanical rather than logical.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Here’s the text of a post I made on a forum, giving a bit more detail,
> >>> along with a Soundcloud link to a recording:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I have a 3TB WD Green disk that was bought as part of a WD Elements
> >>> external HDD. The external HDD was used for a home media server and was in
> >>> use for approximately 60-120 minutes per day. It's around twelve months old.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Recently, the disk appeared to show signs of failure, that I've only
> >>> recognised in retrospect - directories would show as being inaccessible,
> >>> but I put this down to permissions issues with the server, rather than the
> >>> disk. The permissions issue would resolve itself by restarting the server.
> >>> Eventually, the HDD wouldn't show at all. However, when I plugged it in to
> >>> a different computer, it worked fine. I thought this could then be an issue
> >>> with the server (an ancient laptop) and its USB ports (even though the WD
> >>> Elements has its own power supply). I tried a USB Y-cable with the HDD's
> >>> SS-USB cable and once again it worked. However, after a week or so, videos
> >>> being streamed from the server would fail and the drive stopped being
> >>> recognised, so it looked like it might not be a power issue.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I've since tried the Elements unit on different computers, as well as
> >>> removed the HDD from the unit to try in a different external case (with
> >>> different power supply and USB cable). All it does now is spin up and spin
> >>> down several times before giving up (using the Elements interface) or just
> >>> continually spins up and spins down (using an alternative external
> >>> interface); with the latter, if it's left on for an extended period it can
> >>> eventually spin up and stay spinning for 20-30 seconds before spinning
> >>> down. Other than some occasional light clicks at the peak of it spinning
> >>> up, there is none of the normal clicking that I might expect to hear from
> >>> it. After a short while, I'll get a dialogue box telling me "The disk you
> >>> inserted was not readable by this computer", which I assume means something
> >>> is recognisable.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I've installed Smartmontools but can't get anything useful from it. I
> >>> think the device is recognised as /dev/disk2, but when I try to run an
> >>> interactive session on it, I get the error "Smartctl open device:
> >>> /dev/disk2 failed:"
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I've made a recording of the activity. It's not great quality, but
> >>> hopefully it can provide an indication of disk activity:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> https://soundcloud.com/j7e/western-digital-wd30ezrx-failure <
> >>> https://soundcloud.com/j7e/western-digital-wd30ezrx-failure> <
> >>> https://soundcloud.com/j7e/western-digital-wd30ezrx-failure <
> >>> https://soundcloud.com/j7e/western-digital-wd30ezrx-failure>>
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I’ve found a couple of specialists in Manchester and one online who’s
> >>> suggested that it looks like head failure. Depending on the condition of
> >>> the platter, data recovery is possible. With the WD disks, though, they’re
> >>> notoriously more difficult to work with, which can bump prices up a bit.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Some advice for anybody looking to break in to a lucrative career -
> >>> get in to data recovery!
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> J
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> On 5 Feb 2016, at 11:58, @surlydev <surly at surlydev.net <mailto:
> >>> surly at surlydev.net>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> I have spinrite and was going to suggest it but James' email made it
> >>> sound like the disk was rattling or worse.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> How bad is it James?
> >>>>>>> From: Arthur Garlick <mailto:arthur_garlick at hotmail.com <mailto:
> >>> arthur_garlick at hotmail.com>>
> >>>>>>> Sent: ‎05/‎02/‎2016 09:44
> >>>>>>> To: James Page <mailto:jmsp.1983 at gmail.com <mailto:
> >>> jmsp.1983 at gmail.com>>; Mike Hull <mailto:blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk
> >>> <mailto:blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk>>
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blackpool] HDD data recovery
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> I listen to the Security Now podcast
> >>> https://twit.tv/episodes?filter[shows]=1636 <
> >>> https://twit.tv/episodes?filter[shows]=1636> which has Steve Gibson on it
> >>> (proper tin foil hat guy, hoot to listen to when he speaks about Internet
> >>> of Things especially) his product is this:
> >>> https://www.grc.com/spinrite.htm <https://www.grc.com/spinrite.htm> he
> >>> makes some big claims and I've been sceptical but having listened to him
> >>> talk for years, he knows his stuff and I'd give it a try if I had a disk
> >>> failure. But not for a total mechanical issue as you said.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> I will be at the makerspace tomorrow, coding has started on the big
> >>> robot and I have a little robot that I am going to finish.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35442969 <
> >>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35442969>
> >>>>>>> Listening to Bill Gates desert island disks, right now, what a guy -
> >>> who has done more for humanity... Gates or Torvalds?
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 18:16:26 +0000
> >>>>>>>> From: jmsp.1983 at gmail.com <mailto:jmsp.1983 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> To: blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk <mailto:
> >>> blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: [Blackpool] HDD data recovery
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Don't suppose any of you can recommend a local/regional specialist
> >>> who
> >>>>>>>> deals in HDD data recovery, can you? I know there are plenty out
> >>> there, but
> >>>>>>>> I don't know which are reputable and affordable (big emphasis on the
> >>>>>>>> latter). It's a mechanical issue, so software recovery is out of the
> >>> window.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> PS - don't buy Western Digital!
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Best wishes,
> >>>>>>>> James
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Blackpool mailing list
> >>>>>>>> Blackpool at mailman.lug.org.uk
> >>>>>>>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/blackpool
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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