[Colchester] The greatest prime minister of all time

[Tom Robbins]

Thank you Wayland.

I agree that we shouldn't assume that Labour meant well, and that 
therefore they can be forgiven everything. The government is there to 
run the country. Whether or not their heart is in the right place is 
immaterial. If we were talking about a doctor there wouldn't be any 
question of whether or not they meant well if they had a similar record 
of such appalling cock-ups.

Historically, authoritarianism has at least been efficient even if it is 
oppressive. Our lot can't even manage that, although I'm sure that if 
asked they'd volunteer to take on more special powers in the name of 
efficiency.


Wayland Sothcott wrote:
> Tom Robbins wrote:
>> The Internet isn't a power but rather a resource, and unusually for a 
>> resource is not subject to scarcity. Artificially imposing scarcity 
>> on it is just a bloody silly idea, which I hope is doomed for failure.
>>
>> I can be so idealistic some times.
>>
>> The New Deal isn't really a good example of Labours activities, since 
>> it was put into place by John Major's government. I'll agree that 
>> they have done a lot for vulnerable people, but that has included 
>> widening the definition of vulnerable to damn near everyone. It 
>> doesn't make them liberal, it makes them (vaguely) benevolent. To 
>> paraphrase: a benevolent authoritarian is still authoritarian.
>>
>> Council housing and unemployment benefits might be nice, but we've 
>> also had war, paranoia, the undoing of centuries of citizens rights, 
>> being party to torture and murder, and the surveillance society. Yon 
>> Tony has been one of the great prime ministers in a similar, although 
>> slightly less extreme way, to how Hitler was one of the great German 
>> chancellors: he's achieved some quite spectacular things, some of 
>> them even benefited the world at large, but a lot of it wasn't nice 
>> and has been carefully ignored.
>>
>> Toby Whaymand wrote:
>>> I your points are very vialed. With regards to the data protection 
>>> Act I'm not saying it right or wrong but just that how it is. 
>>> Sadly with great power, (being the internet) comes great 
>>> responsibility (can't remember which movie or TV show I got that 
>>> from, prob Star Trek) and there needs to be some kind of control 
>>> even if it means having new laws that make exceptions to the Data 
>>> Protection Act.
>>>
>>> With regards to Labour without a huge debate they have done a lot 
>>> for vulnerable people.
>>> The Council have a legal duty to house anyone who lived in the area 
>>> for 2 years or have a connection like family members in the area, 
>>> who have live in the area for over 5 years.
>>>
>>> With regards to the unemployment New Deal started within days of 
>>> Labour coming into power back in 1997 and millions of under 25 years 
>>> old got into employment and higher education.  The type of 
>>> vulnerable people who otherwise would have been pushed aside.  - To 
>>> me that very liberal.
>>>
>>> I know Labour have made mistakes and I don't want to go into a 
>>> debate but it is important to remember all the good stuff Mr Blur 
>>> has done for us.  I would even say he was one of the Great Prime 
>>> Ministers of are time.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Toby
>>>  
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>     
> Tom,
>
> I am glad you said all that, for a moment I felt I was living inside 
> an alternate universe run by the BBC (since David Kelly's death). At 
> least in terms of government I no longer believe the saying "Never 
> attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence". To that I 
> say "Ooops, so sorry you tripped over my foot, how careless of me to 
> stretch my leg just as you were hurrying past".
>
> Toby,
>
> How about tax credits, good thing or bad thing? With the tax system 
> it's possible and actually required for a person to calculate their 
> own tax, even if that's an unpleasant job. With tax credits you let a 
> government agency tell you what you're entitled to, they then pay you 
> a regular lump of much needed money. If you were not poor then you 
> would not need tax credits. Then a year later they tell you that you 
> were overpaid and you have a week to pay back the overpayment. 
> Government incompetence in such a delicate area looks malicious. It's 
> inexcusable and it's not a one off.
>
> It's time we stopped assuming their heart's in the right place and 
> that government action that leads to harm was a mistake. There are too 
> many such 'unfortunate' mistakes for this not to be deliberate. The 
> fuel tanker drivers are on strike, they are only trying to get a pay 
> award but I suspect those with holding the pay award are hoping to 
> gain from the strike itself. Maybe the government can exercise or 
> extend it's emergency powers? Maybe the price of petrol is driven 
> further upwards? Remember a very similar thing happened with the 
> refinery last month. I know that people with 'important' local 
> authority jobs are getting special documentation to allow them to get 
> petrol when others cannot. You can't argue with that but is this a 
> training exercise for when this becomes the norm?
>
> I do agree that Tony is one of the Greatest in my lifetime, Maggie was 
> probably more important.
>
> Wayland.
>
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