[dundee] What's in a name?

[Andrew Clayton]

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:52:43 +0100, Arron Finnon wrote:

> Hi Guys,
> 
> Not spoken to “The List” for a wee bit but i have been involved in
> quite an interesting debate with lets just say for now a very big
> advocate of the free software foundation and the GNU project (however
> I'm sure most will guess).
> 
> I spoke to him with regards to Linux Society at the University and to
> my surprise (well not actually but i thought that it would have been
> later on) was a comment about the name;
> 
> //begin quote
> 
> I appreciate the intentions of your organization, but the name you
> have chosen for it has the unfortunate effect of denying the GNU
> Project the credit for our system. (See
> http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html.)

Ah the age old argument.
 
> Could you possibly call it the GNU/Linux Society, and give us equal
> mention?
> 
> //end quote
> 
> By now I'm sure most of us have guessed who but anyway i digress as

RMS per chance?

> usual, i suppose my question to everyone on “The List” is what do we
> think about the term Linux, is it a fair term?

Lets see.

Technically, Linux is just the kernel (not overly useful by its self).
So we need some user space to go along with it, that user space does
generally include some GNU project stuff, but it also generally
includes a lot of non-GNU project stuff.

So generally we just end up with a "Linux Distribution" which has the
Linux kernel and a lot of various bits of user space from various
projects. 

While maybe not technically correct in name, everybody understands what
they get. (Or maybe not and that needs some extra education).

> In a wider sense does it deny the GNU project of any credit they are
> due?  Does the GNU/Linux make it more complicated for newer user's
> wishing to use a Unix like system?

Is GNU/Linux any more technically correct than just Linux?

If you wanted to give due credit to the projects in a Linux
distribution you'd end up calling it:

GNU/BSD/Xorg/KDE/Mozilla/openoffice.org/etc etc etc /Linux

Not wanting to take anything away from RMS or the FSF, but I don't
generally agree with the GNU/Linux thing. If you had a distribution
with the kernel and *only* GNU software then GNU/Linux would make
sense, but only for that particular distribution.

I think the above should apply equally to Linux User Groups. We know
when we say Linux we are talking about more than just Linux, Linux and
open source/free software in general. I think that's a generally
accepted fact.

Sure we can give the GNU project (and others) credit, just in different
ways.

> As many know I'm a very big advocate/fan of free software and open
> source software as well, i think that the free software is an
> idealogical ground and that the half way house is open-source for the
> day to day practical world.
> 
> However i tend to always look at it from the stand point of how do i
> explain this to a new person coming to the above mentioned operating
> system, (and that in fairness is because for most of it i am) and i
> find that it's not that easy to explain what the FREE in free
> software is about never mind what GNU is.

I think at first, just keep simple, just tell them the basic benefits.

> He also raised some very interesting points as well so I'll add them
> and please feel free to comment them either via “The List” or by
> email to me, as i am truly very interested to hear what you guys
> think;
> 
> //begin quote
> 
> * Digital restrictions management.  Conspiracies of businesses to
> restrict the technology available to the public should be an serious
> offense leading to imprisonment.

Evil.

> * Unjust laws such as the EUCD, and its implementations
> which are even worse than the EUCD itself.

Dunno what this is.
 
> * Software patents.

Evil.
 
> * Hardware with secret specifications.

A pain to be sure, but sometimes there are higher orders involved.

The two current main hardware problems for LInux are graphics adaptors
and WiFi network cards.

The WiFi has some of those higher order problems (governments don't
want you to change the radiometric capabilities of your card).  

I think the current best solution for these is to do the radio bit in
binary firmware blob that can be loaded at run time.. Rather than nasty
kernel/user space hacks like NDISWrapper and regulatory daemons.

> * Bundling of non-free operating systems with computers by stores.

Well, you can get Linux pre-installed from various places so there is
at least a choice.
 
> * Use of non-free formats for communication with the public by
> governments and by businesses.

Evil.

> * Schools should not teach non-free software -- it is unethical.

It's hard to disagree with that. They should at least teach some
free software or at least make it known and give the benefits of using
open standards/protocols etc.
 
> // end quote
> 
> catch you guys later
> 
> Arron
> 

Andrew