[Glastonbury] Re: Glastonbury digest, Vol 1 #48 - 10 msgs

Mike Keogh glastonbury at mailman.lug.org.uk
Fri Jul 25 17:08:00 2003


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Er...at the risk of provoking Martin's ire further and being flamed 
myself...if you are a placid Buddhist type,...the speech precepts are kind 
of important ...you know, avoidance of harsh speech!!!!!!

It does raise a point though.  I belive that we really should be talking 
kindly to each other.  The kind of world you are so fulsome against is that 
of ego, and domination and authoritarian control, one of gaining some kind 
of hegemonic control by disempowering people through undermining their 
confidence and sense of self worth.  This is largely done through 
language.  The spoken (and written) word is a powerful tool.  You have to 
be careful how you use it!



Mike

At 12:00 25/07/03 +0100, you wrote:

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>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Questions(animation) (starline.design@ukonline.co.uk)
>    2. Re: Questions(animation) (Martin WHEELER)
>    3. Re: Questions(animation) (Maurice Onmaplate)
>    4. Re: Questions(animation) (Andrew M.A. Cater)
>    5. Re:mysql (peter)
>    6. Re: Re:mysql (Sean Miller)
>    7. Re: Questions(animation) (Maurice Onmaplate)
>    8. Re: rattled ~ a reply (s~TV)
>    9. Re: rattled ~ a reply (Martin WHEELER)
>   10. Firewall and Cable (Maurice Onmaplate)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:49:35 +0100
>From: starline.design@ukonline.co.uk
>To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] Questions(animation)
>Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>
>Quoting tom hayward <haywardtom614@hotmail.com>:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > > 1: Does anyone know how to do animation on gimp?
>
>I am looking into GIMP at the moment, and discovereing that its not a 'poor
>mans photoshop', but distinctly powerful...have only touched on animation 
>with
>it but will be looking at it sometime soon. have done animation in Flash and
>Director so i expect that there ARE SIMILAR TECHNIQUES (OR PERHAPS NOT AS THE
>CASE MAY BE) - TIMELINES, FRAMES ETC. aNyway that hasn't been a great
>help...but as said, will be looking at it sometime soon...
> >
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------
>This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:56:52 +0000 (UTC)
>From: Martin WHEELER <mwheeler@startext.co.uk>
>To:  <glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] Questions(animation)
>Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>
>On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 starline.design@ukonline.co.uk wrote:
>
> > I am looking into GIMP at the moment, and discovering that its not a 'poor
> > mans photoshop'
>
>What on earth would *ever* give you the impression that anything
>GNU/Linux *might* be a "poor man's" whatever?
>
>Just because it's not windows, just because it's not applemack, doesn't
>mean to say it's inferior, low-quality, second-grade, not good enough,
>ANYTHING.
>
>And just because the microsoft and applemack marketroids beat the public
>stupid senseless with unjustified hype doesn't mean to say that their
>products are therefore automatically the best (or even worth buying).
>
>Let's get this straight, once and for all, shall we?
>Both windows and applemack products are an attempt to create a 'poor
>man's Un*x' for a single-user, home-toy environment; GNU/Linux on the
>other hand IS a powerful and efficient industrial strength Un*x clone.
>
>The unthinking mindset which says: "if it isn't Microsoft/Apple then
>it's gorra be crap" needs to be blown away TOTALLY; we have enough
>teachers / college lecturers / IT support teams paying obscene amounts
>of money to profit-oriented corporations to perpetuate the myth as it
>is.
>
>Distinctly Rattled, of Glastonbury
>
>
>[ P.S.  Glad you like the Gimp, but.
>Ever thought of doing a 'gimp only' portfolio to totally blow people's
>minds? ]
>--
>Martin Wheeler   -   StarTEXT / AVALONIX - Glastonbury - BA6 9PH - England
>mwheeler@startext.co.uk                http://www.startext.co.uk/mwheeler/
>GPG pub key : 01269BEB  6CAD BFFB DB11 653E B1B7 C62B  AC93 0ED8 0126 9BEB
>       - Share your knowledge. It's a way of achieving immortality. -
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Maurice Onmaplate <mauriceonmaplate@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] Questions(animation)
>To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>
>
> > Let's get this straight, once and for all, shall we?
> > Both windows and applemack products are an attempt
> > to create a 'poor
> > man's Un*x' for a single-user, home-toy environment;
> > GNU/Linux on the
> > other hand IS a powerful and efficient industrial
> > strength Un*x clone.
> >
>
>Surely that should be :-
>
>Windows and Apple products are for those with more
>money than sense, and are often feature-poor compared
>to Linux products?
>
>BTW Martin I'm going to rebuild my Pemtium I as a Suse
>Linux, BUT it has to be able to get on net...I'm going
>Cable.  The cable company guy asked what machne I
>wished to use, and before I could answer said "not the
>apple", so I did not think asking him about Linux
>would be useful.
>
>So the likely setup will be my Win XP box connected to
>the internet via a cable modem through a network
>connection OR a USB.
>
>With a network conection it wil need to go into a hub,
>and therefore be available to all machines on the
>network.  With a USB it will have to be 'shared' from
>the XP by the otehr machines [Apple, Win 2000 and
>Linux].
>
>Any thoughts ideas or such, I'm worried that a network
>option will not work via a hub, and that the
>alternative will be a pig to set up!
>
>Steve
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:43:52 +0000
>To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] Questions(animation)
>From: "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@galactic.demon.co.uk>
>Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>
>On Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 08:15:31AM -0700, Maurice Onmaplate wrote:
> > BTW Martin I'm going to rebuild my Pemtium I as a Suse
> > Linux, BUT it has to be able to get on net...I'm going
> > Cable.  The cable company guy asked what machne I
> > wished to use, and before I could answer said "not the
> > apple", so I did not think asking him about Linux
> > would be useful.
> >
> > So the likely setup will be my Win XP box connected to
> > the internet via a cable modem through a network
> > connection OR a USB.
> >
> > With a network conection it wil need to go into a hub,
> > and therefore be available to all machines on the
> > network.  With a USB it will have to be 'shared' from
> > the XP by the otehr machines [Apple, Win 2000 and
> > Linux].
> >
> > Any thoughts ideas or such, I'm worried that a network
> > option will not work via a hub, and that the
> > alternative will be a pig to set up!
> >
> > Steve
> >
>Steve,
>
>DO NOT USE A WINDOWS PRODUCT AS A FIREWALL.  GIVEN MICROSOFT'S
>CURRENT RECORD ON MAJOR SECURITY PATCHES, YOU'D SOON WISH
>YOU HADN'T CONSIDERED THE IDEA [Just my 0.02 Euro :) ]
>
>If you're going to build a machine to connect you to cable/ADSL.
>
>Build a box with two network cards.  Run SuSE / Smoothwall / homebrew
>Linux.  Set the box up as a firewall with iptables and masquerading.
>[Potentially the cable modem may have some of this functionality:
>it may not.]
>
>Register one of the  NICS with the cable company (if that's how they
>authenticate you - one of my colleagues said "What MAC address would
>you like the card to have" when asked :) ).
>
>The reason they say Windows is because they are used to a Windows setup
>routine in their software.  Most cable modems also have a web interface.
>
>Set up the "outside world" card to pick up its address via DHCP
>from the cable modem.  Set up the "inside card" with an IP from the
>private address ranges (10.0.0.0, 172.16.???.???, 192.168.1.0), feed
>this into a network hub/switch and let your other machines plug into the
>hub. [You might conceivably have to play around with a small
>button/switch on the hub itself to allow you to use straight cables
>throughout and avoid a crossover]
>
>Set up the firewall with your ISP's nameservers in /etc/hosts unless
>you want to be clever and run your own DNS server for "inside your
>network".
>
>This is essentially the setup I have - a PPro 200 with 80M of memory,
>a 500M disk and a minimalist firewall.
>
>
>HTH,
>
>Andy
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 5
>From: peter <colep@nascr.net>
>To: lugog <glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk>
>Organization:
>Date: 24 Jul 2003 20:03:50 +0100
>Subject: [Glastonbury] Re:mysql
>Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>
>Sean,  many thanks that worked fine.
>can you query across tables with in the data base?
>I wish to show fields from different tables?
>
>Also next question. to get a web interface i would need to have Apache
>running to get PHP to work ?
>
>And construct my query so that the job no eg D2071 would be entered into
>the web page form and then the php scrip would add this to the correct
>SQL query to give the correct answer ?
>
>I can see i have a long way to go.
>
>regards
>
>--
>peter <colep@nascr.net>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:05:32 +0100
>From: Sean Miller <sean@seanmiller.net>
>Organization: Free Spirit! - please! ;-)
>To:  glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] Re:mysql
>Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>
>peter wrote:
>
> >Sean,  many thanks that worked fine.
> >can you query across tables with in the data base?
> >I wish to show fields from different tables?
> >
>I will have to check the exact syntax.. I know the Oracle version (ie.
>select a.col, b.col, c.col, b.col2 from table1 a, table2 b....) but I
>cannot be sure that is the MySQL syntax... more later ;-)
>
> >Also next question. to get a web interface i would need to have Apache
> >running to get PHP to work ?
> >
>Yup... you need a webserver... Apache is the best option, imho...
>
> >And construct my query so that the job no eg D2071 would be entered into
> >the web page form and then the php scrip would add this to the correct
> >SQL query to give the correct answer ?
> >
>As a hidden field? Yes, probably... you need to supply it as an argument
>to the SQL query.. you can do it in many ways... but if that's what you
>want the page to do then it has to be there somewhere... either
>hardcoded, as a hidden field or from a poplist.
>
> >I can see i have a long way to go.
> >
>Almost there... :-)
>
>Sean
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:30:28 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Maurice Onmaplate <mauriceonmaplate@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] Questions(animation)
>To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>
>
> > DO NOT USE A WINDOWS PRODUCT AS A FIREWALL.  GIVEN
> > MICROSOFT'S
> > CURRENT RECORD ON MAJOR SECURITY PATCHES, YOU'D SOON
> > WISH
> > YOU HADN'T CONSIDERED THE IDEA [Just my 0.02 Euro :)
> > ]
> >
>
>I've used the XP built in firewall with no trouble,
>but then I've also before that gone online with no
>firewall, don't see a differance.
>
> > If you're going to build a machine to connect you to
> > cable/ADSL.
>
>Was not my plan.  But maybe it should be...
> >
> > Build a box with two network cards.  Run SuSE /
> > Smoothwall / homebrew
> > Linux.  Set the box up as a firewall with iptables
> > and masquerading.
> > [Potentially the cable modem may have some of this
> > functionality:
> > it may not.]
>
>I have Suse virtuially NO experianc eof Linux and no
>idea what masquerading is, or how iptables work!
>
> >
> > Register one of the  NICS with the cable company (if
> > that's how they
> > authenticate you - one of my colleagues said "What
> > MAC address would
> > you like the card to have" when asked :) ).
>
>They register the modem ip and the pc ip, the former
>they supply as well.
>
> >
> > The reason they say Windows is because they are used
> > to a Windows setup
> > routine in their software.  Most cable modems also
> > have a web interface.
>
>Yes, they ar not really computer people...Web
>interface?  You mean you can use a web browser to
>configure them????
>
> >
> > Set up the "outside world" card to pick up its
> > address via DHCP
> > from the cable modem.  Set up the "inside card" with
> > an IP from the
> > private address ranges (10.0.0.0, 172.16.???.???,
> > 192.168.1.0), feed
> > this into a network hub/switch and let your other
> > machines plug into the
> > hub. [You might conceivably have to play around with
> > a small
> > button/switch on the hub itself to allow you to use
> > straight cables
> > throughout and avoid a crossover]
>
>No such switch on hub it's a simple cheap one.  No
>switches at all, but could, concievably have some
>software configuration.
>
> >
> > Set up the firewall with your ISP's nameservers in
> > /etc/hosts unless
> > you want to be clever and run your own DNS server
> > for "inside your
> > network".
> >
>Remember I have installed Linux twice but all I have
>ever done with it is set up a user, nothing more.  My
>knowledge is ZERO!
>
> > This is essentially the setup I have - a PPro 200
> > with 80M of memory,
> > a 500M disk and a minimalist firewall.
> >
>
>So with this setup, a Linux firewall with 2 network
>cards I can access the net from any PC/Linux/Mac or
>whatever box on my home network?  [We have 4 machines,
>3 printers, lol].
>
> >
> > HTH,
> >
>
>Well now I know what I should set up, and the cable
>guys return Thursday so I have 6 days and seven nights
>to get the thing setup.  I presume they will bring
>software for a PC to drive the cable modem?
>
>What worried me was that if I register an IP address
>and then that card fails do I then have no way to get
>on net?  If the new card can be given the same address
>I suppose that fixes it.  All very strange for a fixed
>cable installation!
>
>Thanks
>Steve
>
>[I'll have to get started and ask for help as I go :)]
> > Andy
> >
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:24:56 +0100
>From: s~TV <steve@fractalsoup.org>
>To:  glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] rattled ~ a reply
>Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>
><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
>
>
>Martin WHEELER wrote:
>>
>>On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 
>><mailto:starline.design@ukonline.co.uk>starline.design@ukonline.co.uk wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I am looking into GIMP at the moment, and discovering that its not a 'poor
>>>mans photoshop'
>>>
>>
>>
>>What on earth would *ever* give you the impression that anything
>>GNU/Linux *might* be a "poor man's" whatever?
>duncan was quoting the mindset you wish to flame martin ~ not giving his 
>personal opinion.
>he is a newbie and a very talented graphic designer used to working with 
>apple and ibm clones and the software that the industry use.
>you really need to accept that he was commending GIMP and wants to learn more.
>
>the industry will continue to use the tools that it has available to it 
>and the ones it was trained for.
>our job is to experiment and advocate  free and alternative tools without 
>isolating and excluding.
>i see no reason why you should be rattled by his comments.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>Just because it's not windows, just because it's not applemack, doesn't
>>mean to say it's inferior, low-quality, second-grade, not good enough,
>>ANYTHING.
>>
>>And just because the microsoft and applemack marketroids beat the public
>>stupid senseless with unjustified hype doesn't mean to say that their
>>products are therefore automatically the best (or even worth buying).
>>
>>Let's get this straight, once and for all, shall we?
>>Both windows and applemack products are an attempt to create a 'poor
>>man's Un*x' for a single-user, home-toy environment; GNU/Linux on the
>>other hand IS a powerful and efficient industrial strength Un*x clone.
>>
>>The unthinking mindset which says: "if it isn't Microsoft/Apple then
>>it's gorra be crap" needs to be blown away TOTALLY;
>what with martin? violence never solved anything.
>>
>>we have enough
>>teachers / college lecturers / IT support teams paying obscene amounts
>>of money to profit-oriented corporations to perpetuate the myth as it
>>is.
>>
>that is why i need your (the public's) help to write to the press and tell 
>them what is so unique about St Dunstan's using Free Software.
>regards,
>s~TV
>>
>>
>>Distinctly Rattled, of Glastonbury
>>
>>
>>
>>[ P.S.  Glad you like the Gimp, but.
>>Ever thought of doing a 'gimp only' portfolio to totally blow people's
>>minds? ]
>>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:50:53 +0000 (UTC)
>From: Martin WHEELER <mwheeler@startext.co.uk>
>To:  <glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] rattled ~ a reply
>Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>
>On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, s~TV wrote:
>
> > duncan was quoting the mindset you wish to flame martin ~ not giving his
> > personal opinion.
>  . . .
> > you really need to accept that he was commending GIMP and wants to learn
> > more.
>
>Of course I do -- you really need to get used to my (very) heavy-handed
>sense of humour / verbal style.  I'm actually a very placid Buddhist
>type physically -- I just have a wicked way with words, which I exercise
>outrageously, and without restraint.  [As some may already have
>noticed in other fora.]  It comes from a professional lifetime of
>winding up students to near nervous breakdown in tutorials -- testing
>to destruction their awareness of the implications of the words they're
>using.  Read it, and totally ignore it if it hurts -- but if it makes
>you think, so much the better.
>There isn't really an ounce of malice in me -- just a great deal of
>verbal acuity, working overtime.
>(And I hope Duncan was aware of this.  I'm not a very difficult person
>to suss.)
>
>
> > i see no reason why you should be rattled by his comments.
>
><grin>  I'm an absolute stickler for jumping on anything that could
>possibly be construed as a "thoughtless comment".  [see above]
>It's now second nature.
>
>
> > what with martin? violence never solved anything.
>
>Who's proposing violence?  My (extreme, at times) 'violence' of verbal
>style is intended to stimulate *thought* -- NOT physical reaction.
>I'm just too thoroughly lazy for anything like that.
>
>
> > that is why i need your (the public's) help to write to the press and
> > tell them what is so unique about St Dunstan's using Free Software.
>
>Well, I did make an offer to Christian, but I guess my writing style put
>him off!
>
>With tongue well in cheek,
>
>Thoroughly Unrepentant Arrogant Git, of Glastonbury
>--
>Martin Wheeler   -   StarTEXT / AVALONIX - Glastonbury - BA6 9PH - England
>mwheeler@startext.co.uk                http://www.startext.co.uk/mwheeler/
>GPG pub key : 01269BEB  6CAD BFFB DB11 653E B1B7 C62B  AC93 0ED8 0126 9BEB
>       - Share your knowledge. It's a way of achieving immortality. -
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Maurice Onmaplate <mauriceonmaplate@yahoo.com>
>To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>Subject: [Glastonbury] Firewall and Cable
>Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk
>
>I was thinking.....[dangerous pastime]
>
>WHy do I need 2 network cards on firewall, if I can
>have the cable modem attached via USB?
>
>Steve
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
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<html>
Er...at the risk of provoking Martin's ire further and being flamed
myself...if you are a placid Buddhist type,...the speech precepts are
kind of important ...you know, avoidance of harsh speech!!!!!!&nbsp;
<br>
<br>
It does raise a point though.&nbsp; I belive that we really should be
talking kindly to each other.&nbsp; The kind of world you are so fulsome
against is that of ego, and domination and authoritarian control, one of
gaining some kind of hegemonic control by disempowering people through
undermining their confidence and sense of self worth.&nbsp; This is
largely done through language.&nbsp; The spoken (and written) word is a
powerful tool.&nbsp; You have to be careful how you use it!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
At 12:00 25/07/03 +0100, you wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Send Glastonbury mailing list submissions
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than &quot;Re: Contents of Glastonbury digest...&quot;<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. Re: Questions(animation)
(starline.design@ukonline.co.uk)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. Re: Questions(animation) (Martin WHEELER)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. Re: Questions(animation) (Maurice Onmaplate)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; 4. Re: Questions(animation) (Andrew M.A. Cater)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; 5. Re:mysql (peter)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; 6. Re: Re:mysql (Sean Miller)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; 7. Re: Questions(animation) (Maurice Onmaplate)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; 8. Re: rattled ~ a reply (s~TV)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; 9. Re: rattled ~ a reply (Martin WHEELER)<br>
&nbsp; 10. Firewall and Cable (Maurice Onmaplate)<br>
<br>
--__--__--<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:49:35 +0100<br>
From: starline.design@ukonline.co.uk<br>
To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] Questions(animation)<br>
Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
<br>
Quoting tom hayward &lt;haywardtom614@hotmail.com&gt;:<br>
<br>
&gt; Hi everyone,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; 1: Does anyone know how to do animation on gimp?<br>
<br>
I am looking into GIMP at the moment, and discovereing that its not a
'poor <br>
mans photoshop', but distinctly powerful...have only touched on animation
with <br>
it but will be looking at it sometime soon. have done animation in Flash
and <br>
Director so i expect that there ARE SIMILAR TECHNIQUES (OR PERHAPS NOT AS
THE <br>
CASE MAY BE) - TIMELINES, FRAMES ETC. aNyway that hasn't been a great
<br>
help...but as said, will be looking at it sometime soon...<br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------<br>
This mail sent through
<a href="http://www.ukonline.net/" eudora="autourl">http://www.ukonline.net</a><br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:56:52 +0000 (UTC)<br>
From: Martin WHEELER &lt;mwheeler@startext.co.uk&gt;<br>
To:&nbsp; &lt;glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] Questions(animation)<br>
Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
<br>
On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 starline.design@ukonline.co.uk wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; I am looking into GIMP at the moment, and discovering that its not a
'poor<br>
&gt; mans photoshop'<br>
<br>
What on earth would *ever* give you the impression that anything<br>
GNU/Linux *might* be a &quot;poor man's&quot; whatever?<br>
<br>
Just because it's not windows, just because it's not applemack,
doesn't<br>
mean to say it's inferior, low-quality, second-grade, not good
enough,<br>
ANYTHING.<br>
<br>
And just because the microsoft and applemack marketroids beat the
public<br>
stupid senseless with unjustified hype doesn't mean to say that
their<br>
products are therefore automatically the best (or even worth
buying).<br>
<br>
Let's get this straight, once and for all, shall we?<br>
Both windows and applemack products are an attempt to create a 
'poor<br>
man's Un*x' for a single-user, home-toy environment; GNU/Linux on
the<br>
other hand IS a powerful and efficient industrial strength Un*x
clone.<br>
<br>
The unthinking mindset which says: &quot;if it isn't Microsoft/Apple
then<br>
it's gorra be crap&quot; needs to be blown away TOTALLY; we have
enough<br>
teachers / college lecturers / IT support teams paying obscene
amounts<br>
of money to profit-oriented corporations to perpetuate the myth as
it<br>
is.<br>
<br>
Distinctly Rattled, of Glastonbury<br>
<br>
<br>
[ P.S.&nbsp; Glad you like the Gimp, but.<br>
Ever thought of doing a 'gimp only' portfolio to totally blow
people's<br>
minds? ]<br>
-- <br>
Martin Wheeler&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; StarTEXT / AVALONIX -
Glastonbury - BA6 9PH - England<br>
mwheeler@startext.co.uk&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.startext.co.uk/mwheeler/" eudora="autourl">http://www.startext.co.uk/mwheeler/</a><br>
GPG pub key : 01269BEB&nbsp; 6CAD BFFB DB11 653E B1B7 C62B&nbsp; AC93
0ED8 0126 9BEB<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Share your knowledge. It's a way of
achieving immortality. -<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--__--__--<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:15:31 -0700 (PDT)<br>
From: Maurice Onmaplate &lt;mauriceonmaplate@yahoo.com&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] Questions(animation)<br>
To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; Let's get this straight, once and for all, shall we?<br>
&gt; Both windows and applemack products are an attempt<br>
&gt; to create a 'poor<br>
&gt; man's Un*x' for a single-user, home-toy environment;<br>
&gt; GNU/Linux on the<br>
&gt; other hand IS a powerful and efficient industrial<br>
&gt; strength Un*x clone.<br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
Surely that should be :-<br>
<br>
Windows and Apple products are for those with more<br>
money than sense, and are often feature-poor compared<br>
to Linux products?<br>
<br>
BTW Martin I'm going to rebuild my Pemtium I as a Suse<br>
Linux, BUT it has to be able to get on net...I'm going<br>
Cable.&nbsp; The cable company guy asked what machne I<br>
wished to use, and before I could answer said &quot;not the<br>
apple&quot;, so I did not think asking him about Linux<br>
would be useful.<br>
<br>
So the likely setup will be my Win XP box connected to<br>
the internet via a cable modem through a network<br>
connection OR a USB.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
With a network conection it wil need to go into a hub,<br>
and therefore be available to all machines on the<br>
network.&nbsp; With a USB it will have to be 'shared' from<br>
the XP by the otehr machines [Apple, Win 2000 and<br>
Linux].&nbsp; <br>
<br>
Any thoughts ideas or such, I'm worried that a network<br>
option will not work via a hub, and that the<br>
alternative will be a pig to set up!<br>
<br>
Steve<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
__________________________________<br>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software<br>
<a href="http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com/" eudora="autourl">http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
--__--__--<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:43:52 +0000<br>
To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] Questions(animation)<br>
From: &quot;Andrew M.A. Cater&quot;
&lt;amacater@galactic.demon.co.uk&gt;<br>
Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 08:15:31AM -0700, Maurice Onmaplate wrote:<br>
&gt; BTW Martin I'm going to rebuild my Pemtium I as a Suse<br>
&gt; Linux, BUT it has to be able to get on net...I'm going<br>
&gt; Cable.&nbsp; The cable company guy asked what machne I<br>
&gt; wished to use, and before I could answer said &quot;not the<br>
&gt; apple&quot;, so I did not think asking him about Linux<br>
&gt; would be useful.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; So the likely setup will be my Win XP box connected to<br>
&gt; the internet via a cable modem through a network<br>
&gt; connection OR a USB.&nbsp; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; With a network conection it wil need to go into a hub,<br>
&gt; and therefore be available to all machines on the<br>
&gt; network.&nbsp; With a USB it will have to be 'shared' from<br>
&gt; the XP by the otehr machines [Apple, Win 2000 and<br>
&gt; Linux].&nbsp; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Any thoughts ideas or such, I'm worried that a network<br>
&gt; option will not work via a hub, and that the<br>
&gt; alternative will be a pig to set up!<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Steve<br>
&gt; <br>
Steve,<br>
<br>
DO NOT USE A WINDOWS PRODUCT AS A FIREWALL.&nbsp; GIVEN MICROSOFT'S<br>
CURRENT RECORD ON MAJOR SECURITY PATCHES, YOU'D SOON WISH<br>
YOU HADN'T CONSIDERED THE IDEA [Just my 0.02 Euro :) ]<br>
<br>
If you're going to build a machine to connect you to cable/ADSL.<br>
<br>
Build a box with two network cards.&nbsp; Run SuSE / Smoothwall /
homebrew<br>
Linux.&nbsp; Set the box up as a firewall with iptables and
masquerading.<br>
[Potentially the cable modem may have some of this functionality:<br>
it may not.]<br>
<br>
Register one of the&nbsp; NICS with the cable company (if that's how
they<br>
authenticate you - one of my colleagues said &quot;What MAC address
would<br>
you like the card to have&quot; when asked :) ).&nbsp; <br>
<br>
The reason they say Windows is because they are used to a Windows setup
<br>
routine in their software.&nbsp; Most cable modems also have a web
interface.<br>
<br>
Set up the &quot;outside world&quot; card to pick up its address via
DHCP<br>
from the cable modem.&nbsp; Set up the &quot;inside card&quot; with an IP
from the<br>
private address ranges (10.0.0.0, 172.16.???.???, 192.168.1.0), 
feed<br>
this into a network hub/switch and let your other machines plug into the
<br>
hub. [You might conceivably have to play around with a small <br>
button/switch on the hub itself to allow you to use straight cables 
<br>
throughout and avoid a crossover]&nbsp; <br>
<br>
Set up the firewall with your ISP's nameservers in /etc/hosts 
unless<br>
you want to be clever and run your own DNS server for &quot;inside your
<br>
network&quot;.<br>
<br>
This is essentially the setup I have - a PPro 200 with 80M of
memory,<br>
a 500M disk and a minimalist firewall.<br>
<br>
<br>
HTH,<br>
<br>
Andy<br>
<br>
<br>
--__--__--<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
From: peter &lt;colep@nascr.net&gt;<br>
To: lugog &lt;glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk&gt;<br>
Organization: <br>
Date: 24 Jul 2003 20:03:50 +0100<br>
Subject: [Glastonbury] Re:mysql<br>
Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
<br>
Sean,&nbsp; many thanks that worked fine.<br>
can you query across tables with in the data base? <br>
I wish to show fields from different tables?<br>
<br>
Also next question. to get a web interface i would need to have
Apache<br>
running to get PHP to work ? <br>
<br>
And construct my query so that the job no eg D2071 would be entered
into<br>
the web page form and then the php scrip would add this to the
correct<br>
SQL query to give the correct answer ? <br>
<br>
I can see i have a long way to go. <br>
<br>
regards&nbsp; <br>
<br>
-- <br>
peter &lt;colep@nascr.net&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--__--__--<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:05:32 +0100<br>
From: Sean Miller &lt;sean@seanmiller.net&gt;<br>
Organization: Free Spirit! - please! ;-)<br>
To:&nbsp; glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] Re:mysql<br>
Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
<br>
peter wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt;Sean,&nbsp; many thanks that worked fine.<br>
&gt;can you query across tables with in the data base? <br>
&gt;I wish to show fields from different tables?<br>
&gt;<br>
I will have to check the exact syntax.. I know the Oracle version (ie.
<br>
select a.col, b.col, c.col, b.col2 from table1 a, table2 b....) but I
<br>
cannot be sure that is the MySQL syntax... more later ;-)<br>
<br>
&gt;Also next question. to get a web interface i would need to have
Apache<br>
&gt;running to get PHP to work ? <br>
&gt;<br>
Yup... you need a webserver... Apache is the best option, imho...<br>
<br>
&gt;And construct my query so that the job no eg D2071 would be entered
into<br>
&gt;the web page form and then the php scrip would add this to the
correct<br>
&gt;SQL query to give the correct answer ? <br>
&gt;<br>
As a hidden field? Yes, probably... you need to supply it as an argument
<br>
to the SQL query.. you can do it in many ways... but if that's what you
<br>
want the page to do then it has to be there somewhere... either <br>
hardcoded, as a hidden field or from a poplist.<br>
<br>
&gt;I can see i have a long way to go. <br>
&gt;<br>
Almost there... :-)<br>
<br>
Sean<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--__--__--<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:30:28 -0700 (PDT)<br>
From: Maurice Onmaplate &lt;mauriceonmaplate@yahoo.com&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] Questions(animation)<br>
To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; DO NOT USE A WINDOWS PRODUCT AS A FIREWALL.&nbsp; GIVEN<br>
&gt; MICROSOFT'S<br>
&gt; CURRENT RECORD ON MAJOR SECURITY PATCHES, YOU'D SOON<br>
&gt; WISH<br>
&gt; YOU HADN'T CONSIDERED THE IDEA [Just my 0.02 Euro :)<br>
&gt; ]<br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
I've used the XP built in firewall with no trouble,<br>
but then I've also before that gone online with no<br>
firewall, don't see a differance.<br>
<br>
&gt; If you're going to build a machine to connect you to<br>
&gt; cable/ADSL.<br>
<br>
Was not my plan.&nbsp; But maybe it should be...<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Build a box with two network cards.&nbsp; Run SuSE /<br>
&gt; Smoothwall / homebrew<br>
&gt; Linux.&nbsp; Set the box up as a firewall with iptables<br>
&gt; and masquerading.<br>
&gt; [Potentially the cable modem may have some of this<br>
&gt; functionality:<br>
&gt; it may not.]<br>
<br>
I have Suse virtuially NO experianc eof Linux and no<br>
idea what masquerading is, or how iptables work!<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Register one of the&nbsp; NICS with the cable company (if<br>
&gt; that's how they<br>
&gt; authenticate you - one of my colleagues said &quot;What<br>
&gt; MAC address would<br>
&gt; you like the card to have&quot; when asked :) ).&nbsp; <br>
<br>
They register the modem ip and the pc ip, the former<br>
they supply as well.<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The reason they say Windows is because they are used<br>
&gt; to a Windows setup <br>
&gt; routine in their software.&nbsp; Most cable modems also<br>
&gt; have a web interface.<br>
<br>
Yes, they ar not really computer people...Web<br>
interface?&nbsp; You mean you can use a web browser to<br>
configure them????<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Set up the &quot;outside world&quot; card to pick up its<br>
&gt; address via DHCP<br>
&gt; from the cable modem.&nbsp; Set up the &quot;inside card&quot;
with<br>
&gt; an IP from the<br>
&gt; private address ranges (10.0.0.0, 172.16.???.???,<br>
&gt; 192.168.1.0), feed<br>
&gt; this into a network hub/switch and let your other<br>
&gt; machines plug into the <br>
&gt; hub. [You might conceivably have to play around with<br>
&gt; a small <br>
&gt; button/switch on the hub itself to allow you to use<br>
&gt; straight cables <br>
&gt; throughout and avoid a crossover]&nbsp; <br>
<br>
No such switch on hub it's a simple cheap one.&nbsp; No<br>
switches at all, but could, concievably have some<br>
software configuration.<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Set up the firewall with your ISP's nameservers in<br>
&gt; /etc/hosts unless<br>
&gt; you want to be clever and run your own DNS server<br>
&gt; for &quot;inside your <br>
&gt; network&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
Remember I have installed Linux twice but all I have<br>
ever done with it is set up a user, nothing more.&nbsp; My<br>
knowledge is ZERO!<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; This is essentially the setup I have - a PPro 200<br>
&gt; with 80M of memory,<br>
&gt; a 500M disk and a minimalist firewall.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
So with this setup, a Linux firewall with 2 network<br>
cards I can access the net from any PC/Linux/Mac or<br>
whatever box on my home network?&nbsp; [We have 4 machines,<br>
3 printers, lol].<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; HTH,<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
Well now I know what I should set up, and the cable<br>
guys return Thursday so I have 6 days and seven nights<br>
to get the thing setup.&nbsp; I presume they will bring<br>
software for a PC to drive the cable modem?<br>
<br>
What worried me was that if I register an IP address<br>
and then that card fails do I then have no way to get<br>
on net?&nbsp; If the new card can be given the same address<br>
I suppose that fixes it.&nbsp; All very strange for a fixed<br>
cable installation!<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
Steve<br>
<br>
[I'll have to get started and ask for help as I go :)]<br>
&gt; Andy<br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
<br>
__________________________________<br>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software<br>
<a href="http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com/" eudora="autourl">http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
--__--__--<br>
<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:24:56 +0100<br>
From: s~TV &lt;steve@fractalsoup.org&gt;<br>
To:&nbsp; glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] rattled ~ a reply<br>
Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
<br>
&lt;!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01
Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
Martin WHEELER wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite><br>
<pre>On Thu, 24 Jul 2003
<a href="mailto:starline.design@ukonline.co.uk">starline.design@ukonline.co.uk</a>
wrote:

&nbsp; </pre><font face="Courier New, Courier"></font><blockquote type=cite cite><br>
<pre>I am looking into GIMP at the moment, and discovering that its not a 'poor
mans photoshop'
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </pre><font face="Courier New, Courier"></font></blockquote><br>
<pre>
What on earth would *ever* give you the impression that anything
GNU/Linux *might* be a &quot;poor man's&quot; whatever?</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier"></font></blockquote>duncan was quoting the mindset you wish to flame martin ~ not giving his personal opinion.<br>
he is a newbie and a very talented graphic designer used to working with apple and ibm clones and the software that the industry use.<br>
you really need to accept that he was commending GIMP and wants to learn more.<br>
<br>
the industry will continue to use the tools that it has available to it and the ones it was trained for.<br>
our job is to experiment and advocate&nbsp; free and alternative tools without isolating and excluding.<br>
i see no reason why you should be rattled by his comments.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite><br>
<pre>

Just because it's not windows, just because it's not applemack, doesn't
mean to say it's inferior, low-quality, second-grade, not good enough,
ANYTHING.

And just because the microsoft and applemack marketroids beat the public
stupid senseless with unjustified hype doesn't mean to say that their
products are therefore automatically the best (or even worth buying).

Let's get this straight, once and for all, shall we?
Both windows and applemack products are an attempt to create a 'poor
man's Un*x' for a single-user, home-toy environment; GNU/Linux on the
other hand IS a powerful and efficient industrial strength Un*x clone.

The unthinking mindset which says: &quot;if it isn't Microsoft/Apple then
it's gorra be crap&quot; needs to be blown away TOTALLY; </pre><font face="Courier New, Courier"></font></blockquote>what with martin? violence never solved anything.<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite><br>
<pre>we have enough
teachers / college lecturers / IT support teams paying obscene amounts
of money to profit-oriented corporations to perpetuate the myth as it
is.
&nbsp; </pre><font face="Courier New, Courier"></font></blockquote>that is why i need your (the public's) help to write to the press and tell them what is so unique about St Dunstan's using Free Software.<br>
regards,<br>
s~TV<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite><br>
<pre>
Distinctly Rattled, of Glastonbury
&nbsp; </pre><font face="Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<pre>

[ P.S.&nbsp; Glad you like the Gimp, but.
Ever thought of doing a 'gimp only' portfolio to totally blow people's
minds? ]
&nbsp; </pre><font face="Courier New, Courier"></font></blockquote><br>
<br>
<br>
--__--__--<br>
<br>
Message: 9<br>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:50:53 +0000 (UTC)<br>
From: Martin WHEELER &lt;mwheeler@startext.co.uk&gt;<br>
To:&nbsp; &lt;glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Glastonbury] rattled ~ a reply<br>
Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
<br>
On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, s~TV wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; duncan was quoting the mindset you wish to flame martin ~ not giving his<br>
&gt; personal opinion.<br>
&nbsp;. . .<br>
&gt; you really need to accept that he was commending GIMP and wants to learn<br>
&gt; more.<br>
<br>
Of course I do -- you really need to get used to my (very) heavy-handed<br>
sense of humour / verbal style.&nbsp; I'm actually a very placid Buddhist<br>
type physically -- I just have a wicked way with words, which I exercise<br>
outrageously, and without restraint.&nbsp; [As some may already have<br>
noticed in other fora.]&nbsp; It comes from a professional lifetime of<br>
winding up students to near nervous breakdown in tutorials -- testing<br>
to destruction their awareness of the implications of the words they're<br>
using.&nbsp; Read it, and totally ignore it if it hurts -- but if it makes<br>
you think, so much the better.<br>
There isn't really an ounce of malice in me -- just a great deal of<br>
verbal acuity, working overtime.<br>
(And I hope Duncan was aware of this.&nbsp; I'm not a very difficult person<br>
to suss.)<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; i see no reason why you should be rattled by his comments.<br>
<br>
&lt;grin&gt;&nbsp; I'm an absolute stickler for jumping on anything that could<br>
possibly be construed as a &quot;thoughtless comment&quot;.&nbsp; [see above]<br>
It's now second nature.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; what with martin? violence never solved anything.<br>
<br>
Who's proposing violence?&nbsp; My (extreme, at times) 'violence' of verbal<br>
style is intended to stimulate *thought* -- NOT physical reaction.<br>
I'm just too thoroughly lazy for anything like that.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; that is why i need your (the public's) help to write to the press and<br>
&gt; tell them what is so unique about St Dunstan's using Free Software.<br>
<br>
Well, I did make an offer to Christian, but I guess my writing style put<br>
him off!<br>
<br>
With tongue well in cheek,<br>
<br>
Thoroughly Unrepentant Arrogant Git, of Glastonbury<br>
-- <br>
Martin Wheeler&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; StarTEXT / AVALONIX - Glastonbury - BA6 9PH - England<br>
mwheeler@startext.co.uk&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://www.startext.co.uk/mwheeler/" eudora="autourl">http://www.startext.co.uk/mwheeler/</a><br>
GPG pub key : 01269BEB&nbsp; 6CAD BFFB DB11 653E B1B7 C62B&nbsp; AC93 0ED8 0126 9BEB<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Share your knowledge. It's a way of achieving immortality. -<br>
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Message: 10<br>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:41:14 -0700 (PDT)<br>
From: Maurice Onmaplate &lt;mauriceonmaplate@yahoo.com&gt;<br>
To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
Subject: [Glastonbury] Firewall and Cable<br>
Reply-To: glastonbury@mailman.lug.org.uk<br>
<br>
I was thinking.....[dangerous pastime]<br>
<br>
WHy do I need 2 network cards on firewall, if I can<br>
have the cable modem attached via USB?<br>
<br>
Steve<br>
<br>
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