[Glastonbury] post from clare@blackdownhills.fsnet.co.uk requires approval (fwd)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 11:57:12AM +0000, tim hall wrote:
> Last Saturday 01 January 2005 14:48, Mike Hicks was like:
> >  I have got knoppix installed on my laptop. I am
> > having problems ...
> 
> I am beginning to develop reservations about Knoppix, not, I have to add, 
> through using it myself, but from attempting to help newbies who have 
> installed it thinking it's an easy way to get a Debian-like system working on 
> their box. AFAICS they just seem to be making rods for their own backs.
> 
Me too. (See more below).
> I am developing several points of view about Knoppix, which are probably 
> wrong, therefore I'm seeking a better point of view.
> 
> 1. Knoppix is only a DEMO. It's a great demo, but you wouldn't want to use it 
> to do any actual work.

I'm not entirely sure about this. You can do very useful work with it
and you can use it as the basis for a Debian-based distribution on hard
drive BUT it's not (fully) Debian Free Software Guideline (DFSG)-free:
it includes (IIRC) at least Acrobat Reader and possibly the NVidia
binary drivers. Next year, Klaus promises a "Knoppix Lite" essentially the
Knoppix we have now on one LiveCD and a Knoppix DVD - containing, essentially, 
the whole of the Debian distribution

> 2. It's very difficult to install to Hard Drive.

I think this may have improved, but it's still not ideal. It is
certainly possible to end up with some files still not quite the way you 
might expect - part of the problem of moving from a Live CD to a
"proper" distribution.

> 3. Once installed it's almost impossible to upgrade.

Correct AFAICS. This is also the case for Kanotix, Linspire and a 
whole lot of the other Debian-derived distributions. There is also the 
issue of lack of ongoing support - Klaus has made it clear that he 
builds Knoppix primarily for himself. KANOTIX is based on Debian Unstable 
(Sid) so is, potentially, even less supportable.

> 4. It doesn't even use ALSA yet. (as a musician, this one is important)
> 
> Surely it's much easier to install Debian Sarge?

Correct - but you have to put up with busybox and ncurses rather than
a sexy X Windows interface. It's also easier to install Sarge on anything 
other than a vanilla Intel/AMD box - if you have a Sparc/Alpha/PowerPC, you 
don't have much choice :)

> Could any of you who have actual experience of using Knoppix set me straight 
> on this one?

I tend to use KNOPPIX/KANOTIX primarily to troubleshoot unknown hardware 
and find out what's in a box I'm about to install Debian on. The hardware
detection is good - but ONLY for Intel/AMD.
> 
> cheers & happy new years dears :-)
>
Seasonal greetings - everyone knows that the real New Year doesn't
happen until the end of the month :)

Andy