[Gllug] Nutscrape tips

[gllug at uncertainty.org.uk]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 04:32:06AM +0000, Bruce Richardson wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 04, 2001 at 08:38:10PM +0000, gllug at uncertainty.org.uk wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 04, 2001 at 10:37:52AM +0000, itsbruce at uklinux.net wrote:
> > > On 12/3/01, 6:32:25 PM, gllug at uncertainty.org.uk wrote regarding Re: 
> > > [Gllug] Nutscrape tips:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > But NN4 has poor style sheet suport - that's why people stuck with
> > > > tables for so long !
> > > 
> > > Eh?  People still use tables, AFAIK.  They just use style sheets to make 
> > > them look better.
> > >
> > 
> > tables are NOT designed for layout
> > 
> > they make pages very much harder to maintain
> 
> Depends how you are working on the pages.  I also create dynamic pages
> but find tables a handy way of creating layout, given that current
> browser support of CSS standards is so poor and variable.

I also still use tables day to day - browser support for the CSS
alternatives is *still* very patchy

> 
> $layout = new phptml_table_simple;
> $layout->addColumn(array($widgetA, $widgetB));
> $layout->addBigCell(1,1,0,$widgetC);
> $page->add($layout);
> $page->show();
> 
> Works for me.  CSS takes care of the formatting.  Frankly, if the tables
> put the objects in roughly the right place I'll accept that.  I'm more
> concerned with having things work across browsers and not look ugly.

depends what you mean by working across browsers - my goal is to make
all content accessible in all browsers - but I don't expect it to always
look the same. 

Currently I think CSS provides the best means for formatting colors,
spacing fonts and borders - but tables are still the best way to create
columns.

The problem I have is that we use the same code with different clients -
so if the layout has been coded into the php we loose flexibility - if
it's in CSS layout can be changed at the drop of a hat :)

> Lining up pixels is back down the list, way behind persuading my
> employers that Javascript is a Bad Thing and to be used only in extremis.
> 

Things like JavaScript can be great if used sparingly and with judicous
use of <noscript>

The <object> tag is also nice for offering nested alternatives - again
it's a real shame that it isn't well supported yet.

speaking of unsupported things ... the alternative stylesheets spec is
nice (works a treat in mozilla) - as is <LINK rel="prev" etc 

> Processing templates with tables in them can be complex but getting the
> designers to use id and class tags helpfully solves most problems.
> 

its not the complexity of it so much as the inflexibility that
frustrates me.

-- 

Sean 



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