[Gllug] Editors

[David Freeman]

 --- Kieran Barry <kieran at esperi.demon.co.uk> wrote: > On Sun, 29 Jul
2001, Tom Gilbert wrote:
> 
> > * David Freeman (freemadi at yahoo.co.uk) wrote:
> > >  --- Tom Gilbert <tom at linuxbrit.co.uk> wrote: > * William
> Palfreman
> > > (william at palfreman.com) wrote:
> The right to silence grew out of the huge disparity between the
> resources of the police and prosecution on one hand, and the 
> defence on the other. (Note the past tense: it's gone.)

Are you trying to tell me I know longer have the right to remain
silent? please point me to where I can find out when I lost it?
 
> > Conspiracy theories. Boring.
> 
> You are so naive, it's amazing.

It has been said. I prefer Idealistic to naive.
 
> Read up on the Birmingham Six. Read about the "appalling vista"
> judgement by Denning. (The suspects were covered in bruises. Prison
> officers were charged with assault. They were acquited. This meant
> that
> the convicted "murderers" must have been assaulted by the police.
> When
> proceedings got to Denning, Master of the Rolls, head of the appeal
> court, he said that it was so embarassing, he wouldn't allow the case
> to
> be heard. 15 or so years later, he said they should have been hanged
> to
> avoid the hassle. Forensic tests proved that the "confessions" were
> not
> records of interviews, but composed out of order by the police.)

Currupt powers yadda yadda yadda. How will you stop people coming
currupt, it comes back to what was said by someone in an earlier post,
who watches the watchers?
 
> Read up on any of the other miscarriages of justice. The ones that
> got
> freed (and there were many) all happened because it was proven that
> the
> police lied in the witness box.

This will always happen as long as there is crime.
 
> Now, list for me the police charged with perjury.

see above anout who watches the police.
 
> Actually, far more interesting, most of these cases clearly involve
> conspiracy of pervert the course of justice.
> 
> The right to privacy, to avoid self-incrimination and the burden of
> proof are based on the absolutely clear grounds that the state has
> huge
> powers which could be abused. Suppose one of your users has kiddie
> porn
> on his account. He leaves, and you delete everything, but retain old
> backup tapes. Most people would agree that in this case, although you
> have possession which constitutes an offence, no harm is done, no
> intention is present, and the case shouldn't be pursued.

True, but you are tackleing the wrong problem, and this happens with
every law there is. Why does this guy have kiddie pron and where did he
get it from? Stop it at source, if parents look after there kids they
wont be in a situation where they can get kids.
 
> What happens if a police officer comes in following a laptop theft.
> In 
> the lift, you make a joke that he thinks takes the piss. He
> asks you to examine all files on all backups. (This is unreasonable,
> but
> in the context of the police suggesting that everyone make 7 years'
> logs available, not impossible.) Kiddie Porn is found in /usr/local.
> Is
> this what you want?

No its not, see comment above.
 
> Have you or any of your friends ever bought illegal drugs? If you
> have
> nothing to hide, please make available details of every financial
> transaction over UKP1 in value for the last ten years.

No, I haven't. I am not so bothered about people in power now having my
info, its people who could be in power who might not agree with me.
 
> Do you have any pirate software on your boxes? BSA need to audit you.
> And they'd like to install daemons (which are probably insecure) to 
> log which files are copied to your hard disk.

Don't even get me started on software piracy and all that crap, I have
got to the point where I will know longer buy software or music, I use
free software and listen to the radio. But thats a whole new thread.
 
> Remember, anyone who objects must have something to hide...

Why do you say that. Are you saying that everything I know and own
should be visable to everyone as I have nothing I shouldn't have. Do
you mind if I come and watch you and you girl friend next time you goto
bed? if you've nothing to hide you wont mind.
 
> If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear...

Oh but we have alot to fear. Remember it is not what I have done wrong
which will put in trouble, it is what others have done wrong. see
birmingham six above, they did nothing wrong and had nothing to hide,
but they got nicked because others did stuff wrong, and hid it.

Thanks

D
 
> Regards
> 
> Kieran
> 
> 
> 
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