[Gllug] GLLUG ->Gnu Linux London Users Group

[Dan Kolb]

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On Sunday 17 Feb 2002 21:53 pm, Nick Hill wrote:
> A few years ago I was consciously treading an apolitical line too.
> Eventually, I had something put in front of me which I could not ignore. I
> realised many things being done are not to the common good. You,
> fortunately, are reaping the rewards of efforts for the common good. I am
> making efforts. Please don't throw cold water on those efforts.

Changing the group name is about as effectual as the Post Office changing 
their name to Consignia, or Andersen Consulting changing their name to 
Accenture. It's a name change, it doesn't change anything; merely irritates 
people by wasting their time.

Rabid fanaticism about a subject often has the reverse effect you intended. A 
lot of people have been turned off GNU because of RMS' fanaticism about GNU. 
I, for example, will not use Debian GNU/Linux on my i386-type PCs precisely 
for that reason. There have been too many people saying "Debian r0x! I7 i5 
t3h 31337 l1nuX d1str0!". I have had someone saying (not on this list) that I 
shouldn't use Slackware (my distro of choice) because 'the package manager is 
shit, so you should use Debian'. That sort of fanaticism put me off using it, 
unless I absolutely have to. Note: I don't have anything against Debian per 
se, just some of the users. Yes, I may be being arsey here, but I have a 
right. I'm not telling everyone to use Slackware, and I don't want people 
telling me I should be using Debian.

As for making efforts, please say what they are. Which GNU project are you 
contributing to? Are you talking like Richard Stallman about Freedom, or are 
you talking like Eric Raymond about cost-effectiveness in adopting Linux?

I admit that I am merely a user of Free software (and some non-free). 
However, I do answer questions people have on software/hardware to the best 
of my abilities (and am happy to learn new stuff by listening on various 
lists, too), and I have contributed by helping give some talks about Linux. 
This, IMO, is more worthy than merely changing a name.

> Without the philosophy, GNU/Linux would not exist. Without Richard
> stallman, the philosophy probably wouldn't exist. Without copyleft, Linux

Without RMS, the philosophy as *he* has it wouldn't exist. That's not to say 
that there wouldn't be any free software. The *BSDs are quite happily free 
without GNU/GPL. If GNU userland didn't exist, people would have taken the 
BSD userland or written their own (even just for fun). Maybe we'd have to 
call it BSD/Linux then. More likely we wouldn't.

> will probably be proprietary and not be as practical as you would like. You

Bollocks. Linus started it for fun because he didn't like Minix. He released 
the source code so people could play with it. Without the GPL, it'd have been 
under a 'do what you like, but don't use it commercially' licence, which is 
what it originally had (IIRC).

> are reaping th practical rewards of the GNU philosophy. Please support it.

Yes, folks. Support GNU. As part of their licence, they have their mailing 
address. Send them a cheque to show your appreciation. Buy a tape or CD of 
all their source code.

> > Yes, many UNIX systems use GNU tools.  So, the difference between these
> > systems is often the kernel.  Why not call them by the part that's
> > different, then?  Should my desktop machine become a GNU/FreeBSD machine
> > because I run gdb, gcc and emacs on it, or shall we just stick to the
> > _meaningful_ differences between Unices?
>
> I have not made this point to create a new practical system of software
> naming convention. You have missed the point.

Your point was to put GNU in front of the Linux name. Chris was just 
extending your argument.

Dan
- -- 
dankolb at ox.compsoc.net  
 
- --I reserve the right to be completely wrong about any comments or
  opinions expressed; don't trust everything you read above--  

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