[Gllug] Greenhouse emissions (was Geforce2)

[gllug at uncertainty.org.uk]

On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 05:55:50PM +0000, John Hearns wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-01-24 at 17:41, David Damerell wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Two nuclear devices _have_ been detonated in large cities, with a total
> > death toll of 110,000 at the time, rising to 340,000 five years
> > later. Presumably you think any means would justify the end of
> > overthrowing the nation responsible?
> > 
> The history of the Manhattan Project is something I happen to have
> taken a little bit of an interest in.
> 
> As someone said earlier, it is all well and good for
> us to apply 20/20 hindsight.

even in hindsight I think 20/20 vision is rare (non-existent)

but given that we lack perfect insight -- how can we justify dropping
bombs that kill thousand of civilians (and here I refer to Afghanistan),
toturing anyone, or dropping 'unconventional weapons'.

The injustice of terrorism cannot be a reason for further injustice.

> 
> At the time, the politicians responsible were faced with an
> enemy who were not about to give up 

actually they were about to give up...

The Japanese were seeking talks to negotiate surrender some time before
bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki - as I understand it they
did want assurances that the Emporer would be protected but were
willing to concede a complete defeat in all other ways.

> - have you ever read any of
> the horrible accounts of Guadalcanal?

I have read many accounts of wartime atrocity - I do not belive this
stands out amongst them.
 


> They weighed up the effects of the atomic bomb, and the shock value
> that its use would cause, versus the inevitable casualties that an
> invasion of the home islands would cause.

erm, and they especially weighed the shock effects on the start of the
cold war !

> 
> I won't drone on and on about this - suffice to say that there is
> a lot of history here - formation of Bulletin of the Atomic
> Scientists etc. 
>

-- 

Sean



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