[Gllug] Sluggishness and confusion

[Steve Nelson]

Drawing to a conclusion - or adjourning till we meet over a beer... :-)

> It's not the same at all.  Both systems need the low-level stuff.
> It's like saying "OK, my foundations are crap but my building is taller
> than yours".  

Apart from the fact that redhat's foundations aren't actually crap,
and the redhat building it taller.

> The GUI tool is not a replacement for the curses tool, because
> the ability to administer from the command line, without X, was *key
> functionality* of the curses tool.

No - the key of the curses tool was to provide an interactive
environment for people who don't want to use the command line.  In
this respect the GUI tool is exactly the same as ipchains being
replaced by iptables.

> 
> Our fundamental disagreement here, is that I think the basic design
> decision is significant and you don't.  Not much further we can go from
> there, but one last thing...

Not sure I agree on what we disagree about, but I agree to disagree. 
However, you've raised some excellent and interesting thoughts that I
shall ponder :-)

> who
> knows whether the actual number use it because they like it or because
> they have to.  

Fair point.  I don't think I would always use redhat if it were my
choice.  But I do think its good.

> I'm an RHEL syssadmin, after all (have to, some of our
> IBM kit mandates it).  I'll stand up for my opinion compared to the rest
> of them any day of the week and I think the quality of RHEL is rather
> poor.  Inasmuch as it is actively designed to a purpose, rather than the
> accretion of legacy decisions, it is intended to be easy for them to
> support, rather than to be genuinely useful to me.

I think that is probably true, and is a result of commercialisation. 
This has advantages in the enterprise, and disadvantages to the
clueful individual.

> Bruce

Steve
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