[Gllug] Dvorak Keyboards and vim

[Nix]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Sarah Ewen suggested tentatively:
>> > go for a Maltron layout that's explicitly designed for that purpose and
>> > does a far better job than either QWERTY or Dvorak anyway.
>> That looks very nifty; thanks to images.google.com I've found
> 
> I hadn't seen Maltron; oooh. It's very very akin to Kinesis, isn't it?

The keyboard layout is somewhat different and the keybindings are
completely different, it has a numeric keypad in the centre, people
don't seem to say nasty things about the material its function keys are
made out of, and it costs twice as much. :/

(Really not a keyboard to spill drink into.)

> Can anyone see the escape key on it? I can't work out where it is.
> The kinesis one is teeny and one of my biggest gripes.

I wonder where the shift keys are, and generally what the layout of the
non-alphanumeric keys is like...

... hm, I can just about read the keycaps on that picture. The shift
keys are those long thin keys up the side; rather strange positioning,
I'd have expected them to be under the thumbs.

> I totally agree with the comments about increased comfort; the combo
> of dvorak & kinesis/maltron makes you wonder how people can stand
> using the normal qwerty, which flings your fingers all over the place.
> With dvorak I find a lot of pleasant key-runs that happen a lot; thi-, 
> the-,tha-,I could list lots but it'd be boring and I can sum it up by

IIRC, the Dvorak layout was aimed at maximizing the number of hand-
alternating key combinations when typing, while the Maltron one was
aimed at minimizing hand movement. Different goals...

The other big problem with Maltron is apparently that unlike Dvorak
layouts you can't force a normal keyboard to acquire anything like a
Maltron layout, because the Maltron layout was designed at the same
time as the keyboard, so the keys are in the wrong positions if you
try to force something like that layout onto a non-Maltron-shaped
keyboard.

(You could probably program a Kinesis Ergo to act like a Maltron, except
for the numeric/cursor pad. They're similar enough in shape...)

> saying that typing really feels effortless, which is possibly why
> I'm prone to writing so much drivel when I get started.

No comment, on the basis that saying anything might get me thumped. (I
find it safest to assume that distance is no barrier in these things.)

> The only thing which really sucks and takes a lot of practice is "ls".
> Both right hand pinky keys. Eventually you won't care but it does really
> get on your nerves for a long time. "ls -l" is major pinky work out :)

Well, with the Maltron that's alternate hands: see
<http://www.maltron.co.uk/maltron-advantage-dual.html>.

(At least, that's true of the dual-handed models: there are one-handed
and no-handed models available as well...)

>> Poor old vi people are really in trouble: all those positional
>> keybindings are totally broken by any new layout, while the Emacs style
>> (almost but not quite `bind the keys at random, let the users get used
>> to it') always works. :)
> 
> thbthbthb. I use vim very happily with dvorak AND qwerty.

Doesn't it blow away hjkl rather drastically?

>> In a few months, when I actually have some money, I'll get one of these,
>> I think. (Then there's only the other machine upstairs and the work
>> keyboard to replace. I'll probably have to end up buying several of
>> them...)
> 
> You can borrow a spare kinesis I have for a couple of weeks trial if
> you promise to stop implying that Emacs is superior to vim :)

The Maltron guys have a hire deal. I think I'll hire one of those for a
bit; if it works out, I'll buy it. The very idea of a hand-assembled
keyboard is peculiar, but, hell, if it works... :)

(A very neat trick to convince people to buy the things, I think.)

> One last thought about key mappings being printed on the keys; when 
> you're learning dvorak, that causes a temptation to look down. Don't
> do it! Print out a keymap and tape it up at eyelevel. Touchtype from
> day 1 and you'll do yourself a favour.

Once I can remember where the keys are, it'll all be done with
peripheral vision and feel (edge detection of key-block edges combined
with hand size and muscle memory). I can't type worth a damn looking
down at the keys and I can't understand how anyone can.

(I'll be doing exactly that with the Maltron, but I'll get the letters
printed on the keys as well for familiarity's sake.)

-- 
`Blish is clearly in love with language. Unfortunately,
 language dislikes him intensely.' --- Russ Allbery
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