[Gllug] London explosions

[Daniel P. Berrange]

On Mon, Jul 11, 2005 at 03:46:03PM +0100, Nix wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, Christopher Hunter whispered secretively:
> > The ID card system will be utterly useless - after all EDS have been chosen to 
> > implement it.  It's unlikely ever to work.  It's also one of the very best 
> > reasons to emigrate.  The "free country" we used to live in has long gone.
> 
> Most European countries have ID cards too, as does the US.

Woah, hold on. You can't just equate presence of ID cards in, say 
France, as indicating acceptance by the populace. Nor is the scope
of other ID card schemes the same as the proposed UK bill. These
lines of reasoning are exactly the kind of thing the government 
tries to use to push through the bill 'France has them so it must 
be ok' is a complete fallicy

Check out this transcript of testimoney from Liberty to a commons select
committe, and also the Privacy International website

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmhaff/130/130we37.htm

[quote]
"3.  IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS WHY DO SO MANY OTHER EU NATIONS HAVE THEM?

  (1)  Not comparing like with like:
  
     - No other common law countries have them. The only other common
law country in the EU (Ireland) opposes them.

     - ID card schemes across Europe differ wildly in function and form.
     - Cherry-picking selective aspects of policy in other European countries
      is nonsensical. For example, Germany has a fully compulsory ID card scheme
      but some of the strongest privacy laws in Europe (a constitutional right and
      the equivalent of a privacy "tort"). If we are to emulate their card, why
      not their safeguards?
     - Differences of history and culture lie behind the fact that other EU
       countries have ID card schemes of some sort. There are two separate issues
       raised by the Committee's question: (i) why did they bring them in the first
       place? (ii) why do they still have them?

   (i)   The majority of EU countries with ID card schemes have had them in
       place for a long period of time (France have had them in some form since
       19th century; Belgium since 1919; Greece since the 1940s; Portugal, Spain,
       Germany and Italy since they were ruled by fascist governments). The timing
       means that there hasn't been any real, modern public debate in these
       countriesâ
[/quote]
       
Dan.
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