[Gllug] [OT] Times Article on ABD was Fighting a virus

[Jason Clifford]

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007, Adrian McMenamin wrote:

> It's not penalising car travel. It is making car users pay the full
> costs of their travel (instead of it being paid by everybody). This is
> one element of why it is a progressive form of taxation. To repeat: the
> wealthy have far greater access to car travel than the poor. But the
> poor still pay taxes to subsidise the rich car users.

Sorry but I'm calling bullshit on that one. Where is your evidence to 
support this claim?

Public transport is *more* expensive than the overall cost of running a 
small cheap car and my experience is very much that running a car is far 
more viable for many poor people that the other choices.

Further to this car drivers will also be paying income taxes and taxes on 
everything else they do at the same rates as non-drivers.

In what respect are non-drivers subsidising car and other road users?

Can you supply actual figures to support your claim?

> Actually, that is garbage. Most people live in urban areas and therefore
> have access to a variety of means of getting to work. Yes, some people
> will not, but why is it right that the rest of us subsidise their
> journey to work?

Why should we subsidise public transport then? If it holds true one way 
(self interest only) why not the other?

> Your personal experience is not universal.

Neither is yours. Where is the evidence to support your claims?

> No, the correct analogy is that we have a system today that subsidises
> food and the poor have to pay a disproportional (as against their
> income) because the rich can buy more more and therefore access subsidy.
> Road pricing is not a rationing system, it's a market for road use.

I think you are completely wrong. Road pricing systems will limit access 
based upon the ability to pay extortionate rates thus securing better 
access to the wealthy. The claim that it is beneficial to the poor is 
rubbish.

> If you have civil liberties concerns (and I can understand why people
> might) then that's a very different issue. As for the argument that all
> public technology is broken, my Oyster card works pretty well.

Last week TfL admitted that every day they earn tens of thousands more 
than they should because the Oyster card system doesn't work as it should 
- it doesn't always properly scan when people leave the system and so they 
are charged the maximum fare when they should not be.

Besides this public transport in major population centres in the UK is 
insufficient to meet demand when it matters. During rush hour it is often 
impossible to get onto a train or bus without having to wait a long time 
and then having to put up with severe discomfort and risking injury.

> I am a car user owner too. But I don't see why I should expect others to
> subsidise my car use.

Evidence?

Jason
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