[Gllug] security check

[gllug at jameslaver.com]

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:07:29AM +0100, Tethys wrote:
> --------
> 
> James Laver writes:
> 
> Rubbish. My C&S cards work just fine in cashpoints. That's because
> they have a PIN. It's just that I'm not asked for the PIN for customer
> present transactions. The chip contains a list of authentication methods
> that are tried in order. Mine just has the PIN missing from that list.
> So I have the best of both worlds. The convenience of cashpoints, with
> the added security of chip and signature.

Lloyds gave me one with a pin too and I asked them to remove it. I'm sure they'd find a way to pin liability on me if I was defrauded and I just had a pin active on the card. HSBC gave me one with no pin in the first place, which is what I asked for. Not having a pin avoids the temptation to use a cashpoint 
too. The current plan to allow use of an ATM is to just transfer some small sum into an account with the post office or something so I have small reserves to tap into but I can't lose too much if fraud were to happen.

> You're also correct that stores have an obligation to accept the cards.
> There's no legal obligation to accept any form of payment, including
> cards (the store can just refuse to serve you without reason). However,
> part of their merchant agreement with Mastercard and Visa is that if
> they display those logos on the front of the shop, then they *have*
> to accept all cards of that type. That's part of the strength of the
> brand, in that they promise you that the card is accepted worldwide,
> anywhere you see the logo.

s/correct/incorrect/, I'm assuming. You're correct that they can deny me with no reason, but if they were to indicate it's because of the card, then suddenly they're in a whole world of pain. Well, they would be if I could be arsed to do anything about it.

> I've had a few places try and refuse payment. This isn't helped by the
> banks telling them that they can't accept card payments without a PIN,
> which is only true if they're actually asked for a PIN. Obviously, I
> don't get asked for a PIN so I couldn't enter one even if I wanted to.
> Howver, none that have persisted, once I've pressed the issue, and I've
> always been able to pay with my cards.

Yes, it's ultimately the bank's fault for saying this. I've been denied at a small off licence and at IKEA(!!). Sainsburys usually demand ID off me and I inform them that they would be violating the DDA to demand that. Only once have they refused to back down and when I find a tuit, I shall be writing to head 
office.

Generally, retailers are arsey in the beginning and once they finally get that I'm not trying to rip them off they're quite apologetic and they start to ask why the banks didn't tell them about C+S.

> I have, however, struggled to get a C&S card. I demanded mine were
> made C&S at the time C&P was introduced. But since then, trying to
> get a new card issued as C&S has proved all but impossible.

I've managed it at HSBC and Lloyds.

HSBC I just called up 0800 130130 and explained what I wanted. They acted clueless, I spoke to their manager, who passed me to another department, then I demanded to speak to their manager and he'd heard of C+S. Interestingly, they set a flag on your account so all cards of all types will always come out C+S 
after that.
Lloyds I asked during setting up my new account. I stiffly threatened them with the DDA and noted I wasn't required to provide any proof of disability (or even be disabled). They backed down and ordered it instead of a C+P card. Fortunately I was in the city branch in Gracechurch St. I think, had they demanded 
I go through what I have since discovered is their procedure for chip and signature, quizzing me about a disability I don't have, I would have kicked up a huge furore -- you can't treat customers, let alone mentally disabled customers like that.

Banking in the city is much nicer than using local branches. HSBC is *awful* for banking with outside of the city, I've noted (especially Shepherds Bush or Feltham), but the Old Broad St. branch is fantastic (naturally, they want bankers' money).

--James
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