[Gllug] Unsubscribing and why

Tue Aug 24 15:09:33 UTC 2010

I was in #gllug at the time of the "Incident" and here are my thoughts and
comments.

Firstly, the logs are here:
http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gllug/20100818.html.gz. Please note that they do
not include actions, so part of the discussion was not logged by ibot. It
also seems like external links get replaced by <PROTECTED> (not relevant
to the topic in hand, but just thought I'd point it out).

> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 03:45:48PM +0100, Dean Wilson wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 03:35:56PM +0100, pmgazz wrote:
>>
>> Hi pmgazz,
>>
>> > I just exited from a flame in #GLLUG - can't stay on a list where
>> people
>> > are prepared to call women 'slappers', 'chavs' etc - or to make the
>> kind
>> > of contemptuous statements about working class people and/or women
>> that
>> > I was really shocked to hear.

Firstly, I am really sorry you feel mis-treated.

#gllug, where I've been participating since about 2005, has for as long as
I've known it been a place where discussions have not really circled
around Linux, or even computers in general. We discuss anything from the
weather to world events to post graduate studies to economics to politics
to you-name-it (even Linux sometimes)!

The tone is raw, but I dare say it, usually welcoming to strangers. It
isn't as formal as a mailing list, such as this one, and IMO that is good.
You must, however, take everything that is said on there with multiple
pinches of salt. Please understand that as most of the active users have
been there for a very long time and we've developed our own "humour" where
we always jump down each others throats at any given opportunity, and make
tasteless jokes (the worse the better!). We're probably a bit like the
armed forces in that respect. I understand some people might not like our
humour, in the same way as some people probably find "Family Guy" and/or
"South Park" disgusting.

Anyway, I digress - back to the topic of your grievance.

Before you joined, we were chatting about what was happening around
dick_turpin's area (west mids), and his experiences of teenagers getting
pregnant and subsequently getting council houses etc. I, like many others,
think this is outrageous in the extreme and a complete waste of tax payer
money and human resources, taking away resources from those who, in my
mind, perhaps deserve them more.

As I can't recall having seen you on #gllug before, I can only assume that
you were alerted about the current topic by someone and decided to join
(you'll note that there was at least one greeting), especially as you
seemed up to speed on the topic immediately.

It is regrettable that you take offence at the language and view points of
the various participants. However, you'll note from the chat logs that
nobody was having a go at you, and definitely not working class people.

*I* feel slightly offended that you felt the need to join the channel when
you knew what the topic was about already, get angry and leave and *then*
post this onto the list, painting us out like some fascist misogynic mob,
especially as you gave no reference to our "wrong doings".

> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 03:45:48PM +0100, Dean Wilson wrote:
>> After a quick look it seems that none of the GLLUG admins have ops in
>> the
>> channel at the moment so kicking them isn't going to happen quickly.

Why do you feel that kicking someone off a channel for having an opinion
that is offensive to someone else is acceptable? Better then to discuss it
rather than silencing someone and brushing the issue under the carpet.

Freedom of expression is utterly useless if you are only allowed to
express opinions that everybody agrees with. The whole point of freedom of
expression is that you are allowed to say things that other people might
find uncomfortable (as long as you're not being slanderous).

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:59PM, Lesley Binks wrote:
> If there are no ops in an IRC channel the trolls can come out from
> wherever
> they are and play with channel participants to find an easy target.
> They will *always* try for easy targets - typically being abusive to
> minority groups and try to wind them up.  If any channel participants
> are known to be sensitive about any particular area or are known to rise
> to the bait, the trolls are happy and will feed joyously upon thee.
> I suspect they score points on how riled their victims get.

Again, whilst it is regrettable that the OP found the discussion
offensive, we were not out to "score points" or troll, and we certainly
did not single anyone out.

We are not some young kids with nothing better to do than bait people in
an IRC channel. We're all mostly working adults, and we have the right to
our opinions, just like the OP has the right to hers.

> If any channel I am in degenerates due to trolls and their bait
> I take the easy option and leave - much better for my blood pressure.
> Or I simply use the /ignore command

Sound advice!

> Even so, it would be useful if you would let people see the transcript
> so some work can be done by the channel ops.

http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gllug/20100818.html.gz (again, unfortunately
without actions).

People - please do not jump to conclusions about other peoples
personalities from one post from the OP. "We" (as in #gllug participants)
are genuinely not a horrible bunch. If you come and join us, you'll likely
see so for yourself :-)

Henrik

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

-- 
Gllug mailing list  -  Gllug at gllug.org.uk
http://lists.gllug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug