[Gllug] Unsubscribing and why

[j.roberts]

On 18/08/10 15:35, pmgazz wrote:
> I just exited from a flame in #GLLUG - can't stay on a list where people
> are prepared to call women 'slappers', 'chavs' etc - or to make the kind
> of contemptuous statements about working class people and/or women that
> I was really shocked to hear. I have logs of the convo if anyone finds
> this hard to believe.

There are no excuses for the inexcusable. Post a link to the transcript, 
if you would.

But please don't unsubscribe from the mailing list, unless you find the 
same behaviour there/here - I have seen a few flames over the years but 
little real discourtesy here (can't recall any offhand).

> I tried to discuss it reasonably but was shouted down.

I fear that as soon as #[anything] is involved one is no longer dealing 
with the land of the living. Pity, it had used to be different...

> I'm surprised anyone wonders why there are so few women in FLOSS
> development.

No, that is probably quite well understood, perhaps better than you 
believe. There's still no excuse for such crass behaviour. But - what 
can be done about such things? There is no solution, apart from keeping 
well clear of the underscum that floats on the surface in such places... 
and it's not just on IRCsome channels.

As a beautiful example, I (getting to be elderly male) parked my car at 
a client yesterday. There was group of young males 'chavving' and 
drinking (soft drinks) sitting on the edge of the pavement, blocking my 
access to the car park.

They offered to help me carry a server in to the building, but I 
declined (politely) as I thought it more likely to go off down the street.

When I got back to my car I was disappointed (but not surprised) to find 
it had been used as a urinal with disgusting sweet sticky drinks poured 
all over the pee.

Fortunately, the door handle had escaped treatment and it soon rained :)

> I don't think it's helpful for FLOSS groups to create environments which
> are frankly hostile to women or to people who do not have privileged
> backgrounds and I'm sorry that I'm therefore not able to participate in
> my local LUG.

I don't believe that the environments are hostile, it's some human 
beings that are hostile - because they are in every sense inadequate. 
But there's nothing to be done about it. Moreover, I don't believe that 
such a group atmosphere is created by the FLOSS group, just by the 
tossers that invariably gravitate to open channels.

And they are hostile in general, 'women' and 'working class' is just an 
excuse for that hostility. With me there would be a different excuse for 
the behaviour.

It is very unpleasant and is intended to achieve the result of making 
you leave.

Don't let them win: but choose your battleground, or choose not to 
battle and don't use #channels...

The mailing list is, I believe, different.

So sorry about your recent experience.

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