[Gloucs] adobe software
Maximillian Murphy
m at de-minimis.co.uk
Mon May 14 00:49:50 BST 2007
I was just clearing out my debian directory and came across a thread
on virtualisation. Might be of interest. Discusses Xen & quemu,
settling on the latter as it is for running win inside linux.
Assuming that nothing in that department ahs changed, Xen doesn't do
one desktop inside another .. just several network servers on the
same machine. But I might be wrong there. Anyway, first couple of
e-mails are in HTML format but you can probably skip them.
--------------
Umgeleitet von: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Von: "Joseph Smidt" <jsmidt at byu.edu>
Datum: 27. Juni 2006 14:55:43 GMT+01:00
An: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Betreff: Is Xen for Stable/Unstable distro a good idea?
-------------- next part --------------
Umgeleitet von: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Von: "Joseph Smidt" <jsmidt at byu.edu>
Datum: 27. Juni 2006 14:55:43 GMT+01:00
An: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Betreff: Is Xen for Stable/Unstable distro a good idea?
-------------- next part --------------
Umgeleitet von: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Von: David Baron <d_baron at 012.net.il>
Datum: 27. Juni 2006 16:01:24 GMT+01:00
An: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Is Xen for Stable/Unstable distro a good idea?
1. Is Xen mainly for sharing multiple operating systems running
together,
or are there some other really interesting uses?
Xen is an advanced virtual machine. You can run one version of linux
or such
inside your installed version. Useful for testing the new version out,
running things in a protected environment. I am no expert but I do not
believe "sharing" is going on.
Less advanced, easy to set up and use is qemu (using the kqemu
accelerator
kernel module).
Both run off disk images, not real file systems.
2. If you want to run Etch when it is stable, but need a package in
Unstable is it better to.
a.) Use "unofficially" supported backports?
b.) Scrap stable and just go unstable?
c.) Use Xen to run Unstable inside of stable?
I am no expert. However, why not just install of "official" package from
unstable. You can "test" first and see if it removes/replaces too
much of
your testing or stable installation. Backports will have similar
effect but
you have to manually build, install every piece.
Want to try unstable without going over to it. Use the virtual
machine or a
live-CD such as knoppix.
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Umgeleitet von: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Von: "Jeremy T. Bouse" <jbouse at debian.org>
Datum: 28. Juni 2006 04:22:55 GMT+01:00
An: David Baron <d_baron at 012.net.il>
Kopie: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Is Xen for Stable/Unstable distro a good idea?
Let's stop some of the misinformation within your post shall we?
I am part of the Xen packaging team.
David Baron wrote:
1. Is Xen mainly for sharing multiple operating systems running
together,
or are there some other really interesting uses?
Xen is an advanced virtual machine. You can run one version of linux
or such inside your installed version. Useful for testing the new
version out, running things in a protected environment. I am no
expert but I do not believe "sharing" is going on.
Less advanced, easy to set up and use is qemu (using the kqemu
accelerator kernel module).
Both run off disk images, not real file systems.
Xen can run off disk images or real filesystems, in the sense of
slicing off a partition using LVM and giving it as the virtual drive
for the virtual host (domain). You can also have one domain that uses
a disk image and another using a partition running on the same
machine. Also you should be able to run a domain which has both a
disk image and a partition. I'm not as versed with qemu although I've
used it's basic functions using a disk image and having tried the
same LVM partition slicing to see if it works.
2. If you want to run Etch when it is stable, but need a package in
Unstable is it better to.
a.) Use "unofficially" supported backports?
b.) Scrap stable and just go unstable?
c.) Use Xen to run Unstable inside of stable?
I am no expert. However, why not just install of "official" package
from unstable. You can "test" first and see if it removes/replaces
too much of your testing or stable installation. Backports will have
similar effect but you have to manually build, install every piece.
The "official" packages for unstable or testing are usually going
to have a problem being installed on stable due to library version
differences. The backports being done at the same time as the testing/
unstable packages are being released usually and attempt to take into
account the version differences. There are also backport sites that
can be installed via apt-get so you're not manually building and
installing the packages needed. You may have to 'pin' packages to get
all the dependencies working properly as it may require other
packages besides the one you're trying to install.
Want to try unstable without going over to it. Use the virtual
machine or a live-CD such as knoppix.
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Umgeleitet von: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Von: "Angel L. Mateo" <amateo at um.es>
Datum: 28. Juni 2006 07:48:37 GMT+01:00
An: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Is Xen for Stable/Unstable distro a good idea?
El mar, 27-06-2006 a las 18:01 +0300, David Baron escribi?:
1. Is Xen mainly for sharing multiple operating systems running
together,
or are there some other really interesting uses?
Xen is an advanced virtual machine. You can run one version of linux
or such
inside your installed version. Useful for testing the new version out,
running things in a protected environment. I am no expert but I do not
believe "sharing" is going on.
Less advanced, easy to set up and use is qemu (using the kqemu
accelerator
kernel module).
Both run off disk images, not real file systems.
This is not true. I don't qemu well, but I think it could use a real
filesystem. And I am sure that xen can use it. It could you the
filesystem type you want (a file, a real filesystem in a partition, a
filesystem in a logical volumen, an iscsi disk, etc.). All you need is
that your kernel support it.
There is a real very interesting use: the use of virtualization to
consolidate servers. One of the problems of organizations is the number
of infraused (is this the english word?) servers. With virtualization
you can use one physical servers to deploy several virtual servers (one
server as email server, another for web, another...). For this kind of
use, xen is a good solution. Another (non-free) solution could be vmware
esx. qemu is not a solution. In fact, there are service providers that
offers virtual servers for renting.
--
Angel L. Mateo Mart?nez
Secci?n de Telem?tica
?rea de Tecnolog?as de la Informaci?n _o)
y las Comunicaciones Aplicadas (ATICA) / \\
http://www.um.es/atica _(___V
Tfo: 968367590
Fax: 968398337
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Umgeleitet von: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Von: David Baron <d_baron at 012.net.il>
Datum: 28. Juni 2006 14:37:30 GMT+01:00
An: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Is Xen for Stable/Unstable distro a good idea?
On Wednesday 28 June 2006 09:48, Angel L. Mateo wrote:
El mar, 27-06-2006 a las 18:01 +0300, David Baron escribi?:
1. Is Xen mainly for sharing multiple operating systems running
together, or are there some other really interesting uses?
Xen is an advanced virtual machine. You can run one version of linux or
such inside your installed version. Useful for testing the new version
out, running things in a protected environment. I am no expert but I do
not believe "sharing" is going on.
Less advanced, easy to set up and use is qemu (using the kqemu
accelerator kernel module).
Both run off disk images, not real file systems.
This is not true. I don't qemu well, but I think it could use a real
filesystem. And I am sure that xen can use it. It could you the
filesystem type you want (a file, a real filesystem in a partition, a
filesystem in a logical volumen, an iscsi disk, etc.). All you need is
that your kernel support it.
Qemu is a fairly simple virtualizer. Since a virtual machine sport
differing
"hardware" (emulated) than the real one, running off a real
filesystem is
kind of dangerous. Feeding qemu the real thing is rejected. It will
play off
diskettes and live CDs.
Xen (which I have not tried and do not fully understand) is a much more
complex and capable virtualizer. I have read that it will not do
Windows.
There are a bunch of linux kernel images around which it will play.
Whether
they correspond to "unstable" as such I do not know.
A vritualizer that runs the actual hardware, playing traffic cop
between the
real session and the virtual sessions?? Real native speed and effective
multimedia? (I have reasons for wanting to run a Windows session off
the real
hardware for music production. Qemu and such will not cut it here,
though
Windows, Knoppix CDs (not running the KDE), and Dynebolic run very
nicely
with it.)
There is a real very interesting use: the use of virtualization to
consolidate servers. One of the problems of organizations is the number
of infraused (is this the english word?) servers. With virtualization
you can use one physical servers to deploy several virtual servers (one
server as email server, another for web, another...). For this kind of
use, xen is a good solution. Another (non-free) solution could be vmware
esx. qemu is not a solution. In fact, there are service providers that
offers virtual servers for renting.
This is what I have seen suggested in various bulletins. Speed is not a
significant problem and the internet runs just fine.
Umgeleitet von: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Von: Linas ?virblis <0x0007 at gmail.com>
Datum: 28. Juni 2006 18:05:33 GMT+01:00
An: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Is Xen for Stable/Unstable distro a good idea?
David Baron wrote:
Qemu is a fairly simple virtualizer. Since a virtual machine sport
differing
"hardware" (emulated) than the real one, running off a real
filesystem is
kind of dangerous. Feeding qemu the real thing is rejected. It will
play off
diskettes and live CDs.
QEMU can run of real file systems just fine - just point it to a device
file instead of disk image. Of course, you should not expect it to run
an OS that was not installed trough QEMU itself.
By the way, QEMU is an emulator, not virtualizer. The OS inside QEMU is
almost totally isolated from your real hardware.
A vritualizer that runs the actual hardware, playing traffic cop
between the
real session and the virtual sessions?? Real native speed and effective
multimedia?
Xen runs at native performance, QEMU does not.
QEMU can run any OS, Xen cannot.
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Umgeleitet von: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Von: Andrew Sackville-West <andrew at farwestbilliards.com>
Datum: 28. Juni 2006 19:12:45 GMT+01:00
An: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Is Xen for Stable/Unstable distro a good idea?
On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 08:05:33PM +0300, Linas ??virblis wrote:
David Baron wrote:
Qemu is a fairly simple virtualizer. Since a virtual machine sport
differing
"hardware" (emulated) than the real one, running off a real
filesystem is
kind of dangerous. Feeding qemu the real thing is rejected. It will
play off
diskettes and live CDs.
QEMU can run of real file systems just fine - just point it to a device
file instead of disk image. Of course, you should not expect it to run
an OS that was not installed trough QEMU itself.
I've followed this thread a bit and maybe you all can help me. I've
got a winxp partition that I have to boot into only occaisionally to
get some archived data from an old quickbooks file. Can I
use one of these solutions to do that? or am I better waiting for wine
to support quickbooks (not yet afaik).
performance is not an issue, just like to avoid reboots and then
printing or saving to a common partition and the like.
A
Umgeleitet von: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Von: Linas ?virblis <0x0007 at gmail.com>
Datum: 28. Juni 2006 21:10:29 GMT+01:00
An: debian-user at lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Is Xen for Stable/Unstable distro a good idea?
Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
I've followed this thread a bit and maybe you all can help me. I've
got a winxp partition that I have to boot into only occaisionally to
get some archived data from an old quickbooks file. Can I
use one of these solutions to do that?
QEMU can run WinXP, although the performance will be quite poor, unless
you install a proprietary accelerator module (it cannot be distributed
with Debian, so you will have to do it manually).
As I have already mentioned, QEMU can run of real file systems, but an
operating system must be able to deal with hardware changes. WinXP is
not really good at that, so it may or may not work. A thing to remember
is that you should run it in snapshot mode (changes to a file system are
not written onto a disk), in case something goes wrong.
The best thing to do would be to install the OS onto a disk image (or to
a real partition, if you really want to) trough QEMU. You can install
from a real CD, or from a CD image. It is really as easy as it sounds.
QEMU offers a lot of options for sharing data between host and guest OS.
For example you can set up SMB network, use a directory as a drive etc.
Some GUI front-ends also exist, if you are not familiar with QEMU
command line options. None of them are in Debian yet, but here is the
list:
KDE:
http://kqemu.sourceforge.net/
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/kqemu/kqemu-0.3Alpha.tgz?download
GTK+:
https://gna.org/projects/qemulaunch
http://svn.gna.org/daily/qemulaunch-snapshot.tar.gz
or am I better waiting for wine to support quickbooks (not yet afaik).
Are you sure? I checked Wine AppDB and it does contain it. Does not mean
that it does run, but at least it is a known application. You could also
try running it from real WinXP partition, if it does not work stand-
alone.
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