[Klug-general] Linux phones

Thomas D. Dalladay-Morgan thomas at dalladay.com
Sat Jul 14 21:04:36 BST 2007


Colin,

Same here - I use data side more than anything!

I use a MDA Vario II (really a HTC Hermes/TyTn) with T-Mobile (+
Web'n'Walk Plus)... Liking it so far, quite useful for data as it's a
fairly decent bandwidth usage for a phone (you can use it as a tethered
modem too, only if you don't upgrade to WM6 - They've removed DUN and
replaced it with 'Internet Sharing'... Can't use it on Linux anymore :()

That being said, I'm changing a bit... I'm moving onto a 'standard'
phone with bluetooth and using a Nokia 770 for internet access (has a
decent 4.1 screen, debian-based and opera (with flash) browser). Perfect
for my needs!

~ Tom

On Fri, 2007-07-13 at 07:34 +0100, Colin McCarthy wrote:

> On 7/12/07, J D Freeman <dt at quixotic.org.uk> wrote:
> 
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>         On Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 04:06:35PM +0100, Karl Lattimer wrote:
>         > Yep nokia is your best bet. OpenMoko just isn't mature
>         enough, and I
>         > don't think it actually has opensync or syncml support yet. 
>         
>         Hold on, is that you agreeing with me?
>         
>         > > Linux is a general purpose OS
>         > > which works well on general purpose computers,
>         > "
>         >
>         > That's a logical fallacy if ever I saw one! Just because
>         Linux is a 
>         > general purpose OS doesn't mean it should be used on general
>         purpose
>         > computers.
>         >
>         > In point of fact, general purpose OS generally means
>         something which can
>         > easily be transported across architectures. 
>         
>         Yes, which means it can do many things to a varying degree,
>         but not
>         necessarily do any of them well. Compare contrast: Leatherman,
>         lindstroom wire cutters.
>         
>         > > Whilst its not open source (boo his) Epoc is a 
>         > > far better OS for this sort of platform. That said I quite
>         like VX works
>         > > for embedded stuff, but thats mainly cos its very well
>         tried and tested
>         > > (hint the two nasa mars rovers run on it IIRC). 
>         >
>         > WRT VXworks and Epoc, Epoc isn't exactly alive is it, last
>         release IIRC
>         > was in 2003 running on the psion revo. Which was actually a
>         general
>         > purpose computer built on a OS which was designed for low
>         power embedded 
>         > applications, doesn't have a full API stack, you must
>         re-invent the
>         > wheel in order to get much custom stuff working on it. Do
>         they even sell
>         > licenses for Epoc32 anymore? As PSION are out of business
>         and Symbian is 
>         > the evolved version of Epoc.
>         
>         Sorry, thats me being an old fart again, epoc is now called
>         symbian. Its
>         worth noting that Psion are still in business, just not
>         selling to the
>         consumer.
>         
>         As for the full API, that is both a feature and a bug.
>         Depending on how 
>         you want to look at it.
>         
>         > VXworks is even worse, a friend of mine who works with both
>         ucLinux,
>         > Linux 2.6 for embedded and VXworks daily does nothing but
>         complain about
>         > how many missing kernel level and user space API's there
>         are. For 
>         > instance you'll find that there is no such thing as libc on
>         VXworks,
>         > they have a base library set, but it doesn't cut the
>         mustard. VXworks is
>         > crippleware essentially which means the developer needs to
>         do a lot more 
>         > work in order to get something running.
>         
>         Again, feature or bug. If you are using VXworks on something,
>         like say a
>         robot or a highly embedded system, you probably don't want to
>         be using a
>         general libc  the performance (bare in mind many things are
>         going to be 
>         real time) doesnt cut it.
>         
>         Horses for courses.
>         
>         > Compare this with Linux running on embedded devices, Linux
>         has an
>         > enormous library of tools and apis which can be implemented
>         by a
>         > programmer on any platform thanks to GCC/glibc and the way
>         the Linux 
>         > kernel is developed.
>         
>         Yes, an enormous library. Thats really useful on my embedded
>         sytem with
>         half a meg of ram.
>         
>         > With all that said, 80% of new photocopiers run Linux, 80%
>         of network
>         > printers run linux, 80% of soho routers run linux. Thats the
>         80/20 rule 
>         > for you, with a larger developer community, a larger API
>         stack, many
>         > embedded device stack elements etc... I think that its a
>         better bet for
>         > Linux to run on all hardware than VXworks or Epoc and I
>         think you'll 
>         > find that 8 out of 10 developer cats agree.
>         
>         And how many desktop machines run windows? Just cos many
>         people do it
>         doesn't mean its the best way of doing it.
>         
>         J
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> 
> 
> BlackKitty
> FYI I had to approve your last message as posted from your non KLUG
> approved email address. 
> 
> As for 'Cool Mobile Phone' and Linux, Kevin posted about his
> experience with Sony Ericsson phones back in April.
> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/kent/2007-April/002405.html  SE
> phones are good and do that 'killler phone call application' well so
> might be a good option for you Dan.
> 
> Personally I would go with a phone and carrier that does good data
> plans and has a good data phone, like a Windows Mobile device.  But I
> like mobile data more than voice :-) 
> 
> Colin
> 
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> Kent at mailman.lug.org.uk
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