No subject

1. A Use case problem which really means, meaning that email is
difficult to sort find and generally organise (What people have been
discussing...

2. It can't handle Binary very well so people send there Holiday Snaps
over email and the inbox get clogged. It can't even handle formatting
very well which is why people try to use HTML email etc

3.  It was never designed as a complete procedure but is a
amalgamation of different things, hence its open to abuse and nothing
is secure. SMTP, Pop3, IMAP, PGP, you name a protocol and its probably
used in email somewhere.

I had a fourth problem but I've now forgotten what it was.....

Regards

Peter.

2008/11/16 J D Freeman <klug at quixotic.org.uk>:
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> On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 03:14:40PM +0000, Karl Lattimer wrote:
>> It actually comes down to an inadequate interaction metaphor and
>> "training required" design approach... Everyone needs at the very least
>> a fairly brief introduction to how email works. This sucks.
>
> I fully agree that people need to be trained in how to use computers
> properly, unfortunately most IT tuition consists of "This is WORD and
> EXCEL, and here is how to use them". Hardly a good start.
>
>> I disagree, the message -> calendar problem is a huge interaction
>> mistake. Microsoft made it first, it has perpetuated throughout (I am of
>> course talking about clients that support meeting requests etc...)
>
> This is not a fault with email, this is a fault behind many modern email
> clients. It is a UI issue.
>
>> True, However it makes little sense that we should employ our brains to
>> parse these messages rather than simply use the power of the computer.
>
> Unfortunately computers are not at the level where they can interpret
> the nuances of most human communication and as such are unable to assist
> in many of these tasks. Want something else to do it, hire a PA.
>
>> There's also the "after the inbox" - what do I do with this issue, this
>> can largely be solved or at least softened and organised for us.
>
> However it is good engineering practice to keep notes on all this in
> your lab book.
>
>> Of course, one of the metaphors that email is good at is the letters &
>> mailings metaphor, however there has ended up being some crossover
>> between IM and mail.
>
> This is not a problem with email tho. This is a problem with people not
> understanding the technology properly, see my comment at the top
> regarding training.
>
>> You must get a lot less email than me... I used to do this, now I simply
>> get too much to leave it to the email horizon.
>
> currently 66000+ emails in my inbox, 3 unread. 663M in size. Not
> including spam. All spam is merely filtered to a seperate file, so that
> should any false positives occur, I can easily retrieve them.
>
>> Facebook isn't the only thing that sends notifications, paypal among
>> other services is just one more example.
>
> I find the notifications from paypal incredibly useful. An email saying
> that a customer has paid is very useful. A receipt saying I have paid my
> supplier is also incredibly useful. It provides the audit trail that
> is necessary in a modern business.
>
>> I get email related to various projects, email related to various tasks
>> I've been working on, emails where I'm collaborating with someone on
>> documents, images etc... emails which are from mailing lists, emails on
>> various financial matters the list goes on and on and on...
>
> Yeap, I get emails on all those topics too. I do alot of collaborating.
> Infact with a company work force that is often distributed across 3
> countries, I find that proper tools for collaboration are incredibly
> important. Email provides a core part of this. IRC, SVN, and a linux VM
> that we can all work on being the other key parts.
>
>> Firstly collaboration is pretty broken, mostly because there's no
>> inbuilt revision control, that's why wizbit (http://wizbit.org) will
>> start handling this in the future.
>
> SVN is a wonderful tool, or CVS, or RCS. Wow this is such a new problem,
> shame they haven't had a solution for the last 25 years.
>
>> Then you've got the boxing problem, which makes the whole house of cards
>> fall apart (if anyone got that joke I'd be really happy). for instance
>> (a crude example to highlight the semantics)
>>
>> item: Evolution & Seahorse integration
>>
>> folders
>>  Evolution
>>  Seahorse
>>
>> Urm... I've had this problem come up so many times with hierarchies that it's just not funny anymore.
>
> And people wonder why it's all filed under M for Misc. This is why I
> have it all in my inbox. Sorted by thread. A modicum of intelligence
> makes retrieveing information form this easy enough.
>
>> This is why organise framework is so important.
>
> Organise Framework, looks like a low level infrastrucure technology
> designed to improve file system storage. How will this provide an inter
> human communication system that is so superlative that it warrants the
> statement "email sucks" ?
>
>> "organise framework" is a framework currently under development
>> http://www.organise-fw.org/
>>
>> leverage is something we use when we have to lift something heavy.
>> Therefore a tedious highlighting of my language semantics proves
>> fruitless...
>
> Yes, it applies to the exertation of forces, upon a lever which is
> pivoted upon a fulcrum so as to raise a mass. Not sure how it applies to
> technlogy.
>
>> Good luck telling everyone that... Good luck telling everyone not to
>> dump shit in my inbox that should have arrived via a more sensible
>> medium...
>
> Tell them yourself. Write them a reply "Oi, stop with the junk".
>
> Yes, people are a problem, I have acknowledged this one in the past.
>
>> works well for you, but wouldn't for me
>
> Well quite, each unto their own
>
>> Only one or two use cases work well, others are complicated and inhibit
>> workflow, what I'm getting at here is that there are lots of things
>> which can change.
>
> No system is perfect, you are however trying to suggest that a
> technology designed for the conveyance of simple textual communications,
> sucks at doing something it wasn't designed for. Email by and large
> works amazingly well, and by and large is used for it's intended
> purpose. If you try and bang a screw in with a hammer, don't complain
> when you split the wood.
>
>> I'm leaving that to pvanhoof to worry about, all I'm interested in is
>> the knowledge systems that are required in order to build a better user
>> experience.
>
> You really are trying for full buzzword compliance. You appear to be
> going for the "It all sucks" and relying on everyone else to fix what
> you consider to be problems.
>
>> In the end, this is all about user experience, human computer
>> interaction and usability... Three subjects we're all aware you feel are
>> satanic spawn of UI designers.
>
> Ah, you appear to entrely misunderstand my view on these things. I have
> a great interest in human computer interaction, and ergonomics. I spend
> a great deal of my time dealing with both the failings and successes of
> this science. Unfortunatley I struggle to find many of the modern UI's
> that people have produced to be an effective and efficent UI. I find
> that they do not allow for me to use the tool (the computer) to it's
> full potential. For this reason, I have over a number of years, spanning
> over a decade, worked to find a set of tools that I can use in order to
> effectively and efficiently work. Just as any craftsman puts their tool
> box together over a number of years, so have I.
>
> You do however appear to fall for the fatal mistake that many people
> make. Which is to confuse the concept of user friendly, with that of
> idiot friendly. A computer shouldn't be something you can just sit down
> at and use. Like any other tool, like a JCB, a car, or a pair of
> scissors, a user needs proper training in how to use that tool safely
> and sensibly. Without such training, people will drive the JCB through
> your front window, crash the car into you, and cut their hand off with
> the scissors.
>
>> *sigh* wouldn't it be nice if every linux user was like you, then
>> microsoft would have an even bigger monopoly.
>
> What if every computer user was like me? then microsoft would be out of
> business and you wouldn't get as much junk in your inbox.
>
>> P.S. There's also the fact that being a command line zealot you
>> highlight your terrible ability to spell to the world.
>
> And you illustrate your ignorance regarding spell checking technology.
> Being dyslexic, much of my difficulty with spelling is actually down to
> me using the correctly spelt wrong word in the place of the right one. A
> typical example would be when someone gives me a check to take to the
> bank. This wood of course be me using the incorrect spelling of the word
> Czech, which when given to the spell chequer, would result in their
> being no actual errors hilighted. One thing that humans manage, and a
> computer entirely fails at, is being able to differentiate between the
> right word, spelt correctly, and the wrong word spelt correctly. In the
> above sentences you will notice I have intentionally used correctly
> spelt words that are homophones
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophones for anyone interested), but
> used the wrong meaning of the word. So before you try to score a cheap
> point by knocking my spelling, consider what you are actually
> suggesting.
>
> Thanks
>
> Julia
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