[Klug-general] KLUG OS

Wed Apr 29 19:41:40 UTC 2009

Stuart Brand wrote:
> OK, you are right again, new distros should only be created by those  
> who have established ones already, there is no room for innovation on  
> this list and in future I will keep quite about such controversial   
> subjects
> 
> Stuart

I never said that people who have never created a distro can't. There's 
no reason at all why they can't. What I did say was: Don't reinvent the 
wheel. Creating an entire distro "just because" is a poor way to start. 
You need some idea or goal to start with - and that should be something 
that's not already covered by an existing project.

I never said that there's no room for innovation. If you have a 
brilliantly innovative idea, lets here it - but all you've said so far 
is you want to create a distro (for the purposes of a common base to 
support from, which is the poorest reason I've ever heard for creating a 
distro).

As I noted already, getting everyone within KLUG to use the same distro 
(never mind develop one) is impossible. Everyone has their favorite 
distros, each for their own reasons. Most people don't have that much 
free time to spend and as such are cautious (maybe not exactly the right 
word I'm looking for) with where they spend it.

If you have something innovative, a distro may or may not be a good way 
to implement it. Given the size of the undertaking with a distro, I 
highly suspect it's going to be on the not side. Without any information 
on this brilliantly innovative idea, I unfortunately can't comment any 
further.

AllenJB

> 
> 
> On 29 Apr 2009, at 19:20, AllenJB wrote:
> 
>> Stuart Brand wrote:
>>> Hi AllenJB
>>>
>>> You are so right, why bother trying to understand how something is  
>>> made, just use a prebuilt version that has a strong following and  
>>> where any problems have already been solved, no need to know how it  
>>> works, just know that it does and use it.
>> While one or two of us might be able to achieve this, for most of the
>> group I believe it's going to be (using a probably inappropriate
>> analogy...) like trying to build an engine by starting with only a
>> blacksmiths workshop when you don't even know where the fuel goes or  
>> how
>> to read blueprints.
>>
>> I believe that there are far better ways to go about learning the ins
>> and outs of Linux - namely through LFS and Gentoo. These give you a
>> starting point, and a very firm one at that - they are both well
>> supported and well documented. Gentoo in particular allows you to  
>> start
>> at a level you're happy with, even if that level is a very high
>> overview, and then work away on the more detailed aspects and focus
>> where you choose.
>>
>> You still get to understand how something is made - but you get  
>> support
>> and documentation while doing it.
>>
>> It's also wrong to say that "any problems have been solved". Find me  
>> ANY
>> open source projects with a public bug tracker that has no open bugs  
>> on
>> it! Not only can you get a better understanding of how projects work  
>> by
>> picking up open issues and working on them, but your work can  
>> benefit a
>> large number of people, rather than only a small number.
>>
>> It doesn't have to be just coding either - I frequently work on Gentoo
>> Wiki to improve existing articles or write new ones. Documentation is
>> often seen as one of the more boring parts of any project, but through
>> writing it you can discover a lot of things you didn't know.
>>
>> Yes, common problems will have already been solved, but with the
>> thousands of linux distros already out there, do you think any of the
>> problems you're likely to encounter trying to create your own haven't
>> been solved either?
>>
>>> Sounds like a Microsoft theosophy to me?
>> This isn't any Microsoft philosophy.
>>
>> This is the proper open source philosophy:
>> - Don't reinvent the wheel
>> - Give back to the projects you use
>> - The size or quantity of your contributions is not important
>> - Stand on the shoulders of those who came before you
>>
>> AllenJB
>>
>>> Thanks for the support
>>>
>>> Stuart
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2009, at 05:42PM, "AllenJB" <allen at allenjb.me.uk 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Stuart Brand wrote:
>>>>> A website would be good, for the tutorials
>>>>>
>>>>> the user would still need to download a distro regardless, may as  
>>>>> well be ours so we have a reference point for the tutorials and  
>>>>> help
>>>> While in theory this may give *us* (the LUG) a good reference point,
>>>> assuming the entire LUG decides to learn this new distro (I know I  
>>>> won't
>>>> - I'm too busy working with and for my current distro and preferred
>>>> applications - and that's just my limited free time), it's going  
>>>> to be
>>>> absolutely terrible for anyone else to support.
>>>>
>>>> Why not use an existing popular distro for which there is already a
>>>> large amount of good documentation, such as Gentoo or Ubuntu? This  
>>>> way,
>>>> not only is there almost certainly going to be someone in the LUG  
>>>> who
>>>> can help with support, there will definitely be documentation and
>>>> support from outside the LUG too.
>>>>
>>>> AllenJB
>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2009, at 03:21PM, "Karl Buckland" <karl at digital-end.com 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 2009/4/29 Stuart Brand <stuart_mac_admin at me.com>:
>>>>>>> How about a "Welcome to Linux" distro, a basic live cd that has  
>>>>>>> firefox and a terminal that we can write tutorials for? stuff  
>>>>>>> like that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wouldn't a website be more appropriate for that? Then the user  
>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>> have to download anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karl
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>>>>
>>>>
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