[Liverpool] Departure

Fri Aug 24 08:36:35 UTC 2012

Vive software freedom- just don't mention windows! (repeat minded of the strong sense of irony?...)

dhartley.net<http://dhartley.net>
allthingsflow.org<http://allthingsflow.org>

On 24 Aug 2012, at 07:51, "Andrew Bates" <oscillik at gmail.com<mailto:oscillik at gmail.com>> wrote:

Ordinarily I would have words to say here, but this is all I have to say at the moment:

http://i.imgur.com/To7B5.gif

On 24 August 2012 06:20, Sebastian Arcus <shop at open-t.co.uk<mailto:shop at open-t.co.uk>> wrote:
Are you kidding me people? "Reel them in"? "Convince them"? What is this? The new religion?

There is no secret to many of you that I was brought up with a strongly religious background, with strict rules, where everybody else in the world was wrong except "us". It was all about "convincing" others of the Great Truth - For Their Own Good (TM). Because people are too stupid to know what is really good for them - but us, we were in possession of the Real Knowledge, we knew what was good for others, we were the enlightened ones - it was our duty to help them see the Light. By any means possible.

What happened when somebody developed a different opinion, away from the approved dogma? They were cast out, made to feel worthless, indoctrinated about how wrong they were, pounded into submission and generally brainwashed. It was no place for innovation, personal development, out-of-box thinking, open mindedness, natural human relations or even, well, general happiness.

I'm happy to use free and open source software, I enthuse about its advantages to people whenever I have the opportunity, I'm happy to contribute bug reports, and I suggest open/free software to others whenever I feel it would be a good fit for their needs. But I draw a strict line between all of the above, and trying to convert the whole world "on principle" into using and supporting free and open source software. If it is good for them - they'll choose it. Otherwise, I'll let them have whatever their heart desires.

I was always under the impression that free and open source software was about choice - about being able to select from a number of options. Well, to my mind, that includes the ability to choose proprietary software as well, if one so wishes. I don't stay up at night dreaming of a world where there is nothing but free and open source software. That would actually limit the available choices. As I was stating above, I grew up in a world where you had no choice but to be "good". I think I'll reserve the right to also be "bad". After all, that's what they used to call freedom - if I remember correctly.

All of the above might just as well be wrong from a whole bunch of philosophical and world utopian points of view. So what! I'll have my freedom any day over anybody's childish Stepford Wives vision of the future. You go and live in a place where you are told everyday what to eat, what to wear, what to work and most importantly what to talk and think - all For Your Own Good - and than come back and preach to me about turning the world into a perfect place.

One of my clients once told me that if you go, politically, far enough to the right - you will actually end up coming around to the left. It seems to apply to a whole bunch of other creeds in life. There was a time when all people wanted was some space and freedom to tinker with their software and hardware, without being constrained by proprietary protocols and closed source software. Things have improved immensely since than. But now we want more and more - until some seem to dream of a world where everybody HAS to do things that way. Let's have a little bit of perspective here. Let's live and let live. Let's let others have their own way as well - there is enough room for all of us.

I'll wrap up my two cents. I'll be still happy to come to LivLUG, (or any other LUG) meet friends and people with even vaguely similar interests. I'll happily give talks about Linux and Linux related software and technologies and talk my heart out about stuff that turns me on. But count me out when it comes to "convincing" anybody of anything. And yes, I'll continue to be "inclusive" - and I won't wash my mouth after pronouncing the forbidden words. I'd rather be a sinner and free, than an exclusive saint.

Sebastian

On 24/08/12 01:19, Tim Dobson wrote:
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On 22/08/12 22:07, Bob Ham wrote:
I hope that you will take my departure as a statement that free
software is a serious matter that should not be disregarded.

The challenge of the free software movement to keep people motivated
in what is essentially always an ongoing process.

Explaining, endlessly being happy to patiently debate all the old
arguments is an very impressive skill, somehow Matt Lee and the people
that first brought me into the movement could do managed it rather well.

Matt and crew knew well, that to help people see that free software
was a good thing, he had to meet people, and talk to people who
somewhat agreed. Now obviously, somewhat agreeing, is quite a lot like
not agreeing, except that at some point you articulate your argument
in a different context one day, and it seems they agree with you.

It takes a big person to outright admit they were wrong, but they may
still agree with you. Free software activism outside of LUG's is
important, but LUG (and Drupal/Python/Brainfuck/etc User Groups) are
all good places to talk about free software, because the people there
have already got a basic understanding, even if they won't agree with
you straight away.

Anyway, I fondly remember, what must have been, in my words, a rather
below-par talk I gave at livlug a number years back. In fact, you're
probably very lucky in that I seem to remember you turning up late and
missing most of it, which must definitely have been the best way to
see the talk, given how unprepared I was!

Nevertheless, I remember you slotting in the and immediately starting
to ask about what you'd missed, join in with the banter and actually,
somehow, managed to make me feel a little less self-conscious, and for
that, I'm really grateful. :)

I'm sure you have your own things to keep you occupied,
but please be aware of both the Manchester Free Software mailing list
and the FSFE Manchester mailing list:
https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/manchester
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsuk-manchester

Cheers,

Tim
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