[Liverpool] Departure

Fri Aug 24 09:20:56 UTC 2012

Just in case my phrasing was a bit ambiguous - this email was not 
directed personally at Tim. It was an airing of my personal ideas on the 
subject in general to anybody who might have taken the time to read it :-)

Thanks,

Sebastian

On 24/08/12 06:20, Sebastian Arcus wrote:
> Are you kidding me people? "Reel them in"? "Convince them"? What is
> this? The new religion?
>
> There is no secret to many of you that I was brought up with a strongly
> religious background, with strict rules, where everybody else in the
> world was wrong except "us". It was all about "convincing" others of the
> Great Truth - For Their Own Good (TM). Because people are too stupid to
> know what is really good for them - but us, we were in possession of the
> Real Knowledge, we knew what was good for others, we were the
> enlightened ones - it was our duty to help them see the Light. By any
> means possible.
>
> What happened when somebody developed a different opinion, away from the
> approved dogma? They were cast out, made to feel worthless,
> indoctrinated about how wrong they were, pounded into submission and
> generally brainwashed. It was no place for innovation, personal
> development, out-of-box thinking, open mindedness, natural human
> relations or even, well, general happiness.
>
> I'm happy to use free and open source software, I enthuse about its
> advantages to people whenever I have the opportunity, I'm happy to
> contribute bug reports, and I suggest open/free software to others
> whenever I feel it would be a good fit for their needs. But I draw a
> strict line between all of the above, and trying to convert the whole
> world "on principle" into using and supporting free and open source
> software. If it is good for them - they'll choose it. Otherwise, I'll
> let them have whatever their heart desires.
>
> I was always under the impression that free and open source software was
> about choice - about being able to select from a number of options.
> Well, to my mind, that includes the ability to choose proprietary
> software as well, if one so wishes. I don't stay up at night dreaming of
> a world where there is nothing but free and open source software. That
> would actually limit the available choices. As I was stating above, I
> grew up in a world where you had no choice but to be "good". I think
> I'll reserve the right to also be "bad". After all, that's what they
> used to call freedom - if I remember correctly.
>
> All of the above might just as well be wrong from a whole bunch of
> philosophical and world utopian points of view. So what! I'll have my
> freedom any day over anybody's childish Stepford Wives vision of the
> future. You go and live in a place where you are told everyday what to
> eat, what to wear, what to work and most importantly what to talk and
> think - all For Your Own Good - and than come back and preach to me
> about turning the world into a perfect place.
>
> One of my clients once told me that if you go, politically, far enough
> to the right - you will actually end up coming around to the left. It
> seems to apply to a whole bunch of other creeds in life. There was a
> time when all people wanted was some space and freedom to tinker with
> their software and hardware, without being constrained by proprietary
> protocols and closed source software. Things have improved immensely
> since than. But now we want more and more - until some seem to dream of
> a world where everybody HAS to do things that way. Let's have a little
> bit of perspective here. Let's live and let live. Let's let others have
> their own way as well - there is enough room for all of us.
>
> I'll wrap up my two cents. I'll be still happy to come to LivLUG, (or
> any other LUG) meet friends and people with even vaguely similar
> interests. I'll happily give talks about Linux and Linux related
> software and technologies and talk my heart out about stuff that turns
> me on. But count me out when it comes to "convincing" anybody of
> anything. And yes, I'll continue to be "inclusive" - and I won't wash my
> mouth after pronouncing the forbidden words. I'd rather be a sinner and
> free, than an exclusive saint.
>
>
> Sebastian
>
>
>
>
> On 24/08/12 01:19, Tim Dobson wrote:
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>> On 22/08/12 22:07, Bob Ham wrote:
>>> I hope that you will take my departure as a statement that free
>>> software is a serious matter that should not be disregarded.
>>
>> The challenge of the free software movement to keep people motivated
>> in what is essentially always an ongoing process.
>>
>> Explaining, endlessly being happy to patiently debate all the old
>> arguments is an very impressive skill, somehow Matt Lee and the people
>> that first brought me into the movement could do managed it rather well.
>>
>> Matt and crew knew well, that to help people see that free software
>> was a good thing, he had to meet people, and talk to people who
>> somewhat agreed. Now obviously, somewhat agreeing, is quite a lot like
>> not agreeing, except that at some point you articulate your argument
>> in a different context one day, and it seems they agree with you.
>>
>> It takes a big person to outright admit they were wrong, but they may
>> still agree with you. Free software activism outside of LUG's is
>> important, but LUG (and Drupal/Python/Brainfuck/etc User Groups) are
>> all good places to talk about free software, because the people there
>> have already got a basic understanding, even if they won't agree with
>> you straight away.
>>
>> Anyway, I fondly remember, what must have been, in my words, a rather
>> below-par talk I gave at livlug a number years back. In fact, you're
>> probably very lucky in that I seem to remember you turning up late and
>> missing most of it, which must definitely have been the best way to
>> see the talk, given how unprepared I was!
>>
>> Nevertheless, I remember you slotting in the and immediately starting
>> to ask about what you'd missed, join in with the banter and actually,
>> somehow, managed to make me feel a little less self-conscious, and for
>> that, I'm really grateful. :)
>>
>> I'm sure you have your own things to keep you occupied,
>> but please be aware of both the Manchester Free Software mailing list
>> and the FSFE Manchester mailing list:
>> https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/manchester
>> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsuk-manchester
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tim
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>
>

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