[Nottingham] Response on awareness day

Michael Simms michael at tuxgames.com
Fri Nov 4 00:32:32 GMT 2005

OK, firstly

You are getting me and martin mixed up. I posted the first email, martin
posted the second saying pretty much the same thing but in stronger

Secondly, Im not going to apologise to anyone. Im sorry but if anyone
was so horribly offended by my email, then really, you are probably too
emotionally fragile to be out in society, and you should unsubscribe
immediately. This isnt the first flamewar, it wont be the last, and it
is by far from the harshest. I didnt even feel the need for flame
retardent clothing with the level of comments (sorry to those that tried
to offend me, you didnt).

Grow up, it was an email expressing my opinions, and you know what, Im
allowed my opinions and I firmly believe in everything I said, and
nothing that a few people going complaining is going to change that.

Fact is for every person that violently objected on the list, another
one replied by private email that they agreed with what I said. And the
ones that agreed are funnily enough, for the most part, the same group
of people that does everything for the group.

I hold my opinion, people who disagree with me hold theirs thats fine,
and I respect your right to your opinion. Dont try and take mine away
from me. Most people who disagreed did so in a constructive manner, and
thats fine with me, I like people who can disagree with me in an adult
way without throwing hysteronics. My opinion isnt always right, its
often wrong, I reserve my right to be as wrong as the next person. I do
not in any way believe I was wrong today but that is just my opinion.


This mailing list is NOT HERE FOR FLAMEWARS. If you have a problem with
what I say, send me a personal email and we can have a nice personal
slanging match away from people that really dont give a damn what your
grudge against what I said is.

Its gone on long enough, too long in fact, and nothing anyone says is
going to bring up any new issues.

If anyone wants to be CONSTRUCTIVE, then go for it, get it on the list,
but we dont need any more whining about how people burst into tears or
contemplated suicide on the strength of a simple email. Get a grip, get
over it, if you hate me, fine, I really don't care, if you go through
life without making enemies then you really arent living it. If anyone
hates me for my email today, then really, you arent the kind of person
whose opinion I value anyway. If you DISAGREE with me, then thats cool,
disagreement is constructive, we can get together, have a drink and
debate the rights and wrongs of it. This whining for apologies and how
people were offended - it really isnt.

You've had your cry and thrown teddy out of the pram, now time to FINISH
it. Anyone that wants to try and continue this, you have my email
address, take it there, NOT HERE.


On Thu, 2005-11-03 at 23:47 +0000, gary smith wrote:
> Martin wrote:
> > 
> >> I believe that you owe a lot of people an apology.
> > 
> > 
> > Please state you case and in what way. An apology to you for what?
> " I am disappointed, bordering on disgusted with the
> LUG members, and this includes everyone on the list."
> That includes me then?
> Could you please let me know, explicitly, that you include me in the 
> list of those who have disappointed and almost disgusted you, because it 
> certainly seems that way ...
> "I would like to personally thank each and every one of you for wasting 
> my money on that."
> Let's arrange a suitable time and place for you to give that apology 
> personally.  Maybe a few more people will participate.
> > 
> > (Or is this for some imaginary "group" with certain imagined "traits".)
> > 
> Why do you quote "group" and "traits"?
> Now you're babbling.  One more time - " ... the LUG members, and this 
> includes _everyone_ on the list." (emphasis added)  Your words.  I 
> assume that you don't believe the list members to be an imaginary group?
> > 
> >> Please reflect and try to mature a little.
> > 
> > 
> > Please speak for yourself 
> I did.  And I'll so do again.  Today has been a bad day for you.
> >and let others speak for themselves also. 
> And that's what other LUG members have been doing all day.
> It's a bit rich coming from someone who has so publicly drawn 
> conclusions about the entire membership of the LUG and 400 list members.
> "I managed to find the time, so lack of time is NOT an excuse"
> So who made this excuse?  Surely not an imaginary "group" with imagined 
> "traits"?  You're not speaking for someone else are you?
> "None of you can finger point and say 'it wasnt me' because it was."
> No ifs or buts here.  Very explicit.  Each and every one of us is guilty.
> "None of you can say 'sorry, ..."
> Judging by today's mail, I think this is spot on.
> "... I was too busy' because trust me, you are probably not as busy as I 
> am, running 2 companies."
> ... and answering fan mail.
> So, let others speak for themselves?  Good advice.  Take it.
> > We're waiting 
> Who?
>  >for a little feedback if you hadn't realised.
> Just how much feedback does it take?
> You've had more than a little feedback today.  Most of it saying much 
> the same as me.  Your comments showed nothing but contempt for a good 
> many people whom you have probably never met, and about whom you know 
> absolutely nothing.
> > 
> > Now, your own point is?
> > 
> That your outburst was emotional. irrational and completely unwarranted.
> You insulted every member on the list, explicitly, and that therefore 
> you should apologise and grow up.
> "why the hell should we give any of the many of you that have asked
> for help advice, the help and advice we have so freely offered in the
> past"
> I may be wrong, but it sounds like the help and advice you want to give 
> is not really freely given.  It seems to me that you have some sort of 
> emotional attachment to it, and give it conditionally.  Either your 
> advice is given freely or it is not.
> And once again, you seem to b speaking for other people ("why the hell 
> should we give ...").
> "Are you all going to let us down on
> that too?"
> What do you think?
> _______________________________________________
> Nottingham mailing list
> Nottingham at mailman.lug.org.uk
> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/nottingham
Michael Simms - CEO, Tux Games

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