[Nottingham] Web site....

Mark fivebellies at hotmail.com
Mon Jan 11 20:36:25 UTC 2010


I'll have a go at it....updating the website that is... :-)
...Cheers then
Mark

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Subject: Nottingham Digest, Vol 326, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: [Talk] Thurs 07/01/2010 A GUI Past & Future (Martin)
   2. [OT] Sushi, Whales, and Recent Events (Martin)
   3. Re: [Talk] Thurs 07/01/2010 A GUI Past & Future (Jim Moore)
   4. Re: [Talk] Thurs 07/01/2010 A GUI Past & Future (Rory Holland)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:47:46 +0000
From: Martin <martin at ml1.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Nottingham] [Talk] Thurs 07/01/2010 A GUI Past & Future
To: Notts GNU/Linux Users Group <nottingham at mailman.lug.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4B4A2EE2.1070401 at ml1.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Martin wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> Happy New Year!
> 
> And I hope all enjoyed whatever festivities or just a nice quiet break.
> 
> For the first Thursday meet of the year, we have:
> 
> A GUI Past & Future
> ===================
> 
> 
> Whilst doing the Christmas rounds, I was in discussion with various
> people about how we 'play' with all things players, computers, and


And a good if very select session was had despite the cold and snow. One
geek was showing off a very smart if overly small smartphone for
go-everywhere connectivity and ssh to back home. Still not sure I'd be
able to use it with my super fat fingers... And it looks like netbooks
still rule ok! Anyone seen anything of the new ARM-based machines soon
to come out?

Nicely varied discussion with only very brief mention of Christmas.
Looks like true geeks already do have all their toys! There was a short
but deep little discussion on language and the use of language and of
how the same written text can be interpreted in many very different ways.

That was a very good reminder as to how 'help files' and manuals can be
completely unhelpful to users. Also, it backs up many comments I've
heard that users just do not read what is on the computer screen in
front of them. I was reminded for over the Christmas period for the
plethora of trivial 'computer problems' that seemed to gravitate to me
for fixing 'computer things' for others. Largely, users do not
understand and have no interest in *any* of the jargon or architectural
details that we are naturally immersed in with computers...

>From that I've a good few ideas for a possible User Interface direction
beyond what the Moblin user interface is just now lightly touching upon.

I think the biggest hangup for everyone with the mainstream GUIs is the
very flawed and inconsistent results produced when using mouse buttons:

one click for select;
two clicks in quick succession for select-and-action;
click-and-hold to drag something;
many variations if keyboard keys are pressed also.

That list is typical but those results are not consistent even on the
same one desktop! For example, one click on a desktop object might
select it whereas one click on a taskbar object on that same desktop
will act like a double-click!

Note: A typical user reading this rant of mine will likely not
understand what is meant by the term "a desktop object". You're at an
advanced level if you do understand.

Also consider that most people find the double-click to be almost
impossible to do physically without at least some practice... And there
is always confusion caused by why or how only one of a sigle-click,
double-click, or a right-click might be needed...

There must be better ways... (That are intuitive or can be randomly
guessed and that do not require any deep menus or /any/ manuals...)


The Navvy is getting nicely revamped and is already looking an awful lot
brighter. The beer was good although you need to like Banks bitter. And
their ADSL + WiFi is finally getting hooked up.


> I'll also be putting together a few ideas to post a calendar of talks
> for the year. What would you like to hear? What interests?

Next foodie social is at YO! Sushi on Tuesday 19/01/2010 pending a
certain person acquiring discount vouchers for us all. This time we'll
aim for an earlier start than usual to hopefully be able to get in there
before any queues.

Next talk 'n' beers is about what happens from switch on of a PC through
to seeing a desktop displayed, and why it takes such a ridiculously long
time. Anyone with details of how to speed up that process will be very
welcome to add comment!! All at the new brighter Navvy on Thursday
04/02/2010.


We've got a clean calendar at the Navvy for this year both for events
and for which days to meet. Anyone got any preference what talks, or for
alternate days?


> And are there any volunteers to revamp our long dormant website? (A lot
> of work was put into the old drupal site. Either resurrect that or at
> least retrieve the content?)

No takers on that one :-( ... so far?


Cheers All,
Martin

-- 
----------------
Martin Lomas
martin at ml1.co.uk
----------------




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:51:05 +0000
From: Martin <martin at ml1.co.uk>
Subject: [Nottingham] [OT] Sushi, Whales, and Recent Events
To: NLUG <nottingham at mailman.lug.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4B4A2FA9.3070806 at ml1.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Folks,

There's quite a clash ongoing at the moment in a whale sanctuary off the
coast of Antarctica. See below for brief-ish details.

Considering the proposed next social venue, and having a conscience,
some quick checks shows my conscience can be reasonably clean and clear
on this one.

So all is ok and go by me!


For those unaware, I guess there are parallels to how most of our planet
are completely unaware of Free Software (as in for your personal
freedoms), the FSF, and how Linux and groups such as ours fit in with
all that...

An important aspect is that our group is open and welcome to all, but
also that hopefully at least some members will understand why it is that
we benefit from all parts that is the "GNU"/"Linux" that we use.


Regards,
Martin


YO! Sushi Sustainable Tuna
http://fis.com/fis/techno/newtechno.asp?id=33318&l=e&ndb=1

Also, there is no mention of whale on the YO! Sushi website and it's not
 on any menus. It appears to be a UK chain that honours a Japanese style
of food.


The plight of the bluefin
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7611636.stm



In the Antarctic, Sea Shepherd activists on a record breaking
lightweight powerboat, the Ady Gil, had stopped their interference for
the day and appear to have been caught completely disbelieving that they
would be run down to be sunk by a Japanese whaling boat.

Some of the various views on YouTube:

Footage from the Ady Gil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfGM-LzGKjc

Video released by the Japanese Whalers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEmzp054cOA

Interview with Paul Watson, Sea Shepherd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brw6JN0lQXY

Interview with Glen Innwood, spokesperson for the Japanese Whalers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ3359XLr-8

Interview with Pete Bethune, Ady Gil captain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgadHN1X6nU


Two news articles:

Film backs Ady Gil claims
http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2010/01/11/120771_tasmania-news.html

Paul Watson: Sea Shepherd's stern 'warrior' defies Japanese whalers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/10/paul-watson-sea-shepherd-w
hales



-- 
----------------
Martin Lomas
martin at ml1.co.uk
----------------



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:32:30 +0000
From: Jim Moore <jmthelostpacket at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [Nottingham] [Talk] Thurs 07/01/2010 A GUI Past & Future
To: "Notts GNU/Linux Users Group" <nottingham at mailman.lug.org.uk>
Message-ID:
	<e24b97891001101932j1009bad1u27cfb160cec9074 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

idea for the website: put the content on a google account (7.5GB there
so plenty space!) and link it via an iframe on an ICQ account (the
iframe takes care of the ads n other assorted "goodies" that ice likes
to foist on you) to take care of the ddns problem right there at the
registrar end eg www.thiswebsite.com redirects to
http://members.icq.com/12324567a/ which loads an iframe from your
server (single page there which takes about 0.0001sec to load, how's
that for efficiency?) and everything else from a googlemail virtual
drive. That's what I used to do for my local content before I
discovered Apache (and the associated bandwidth overhead that
threatens to melt my modem every time someone hit one of my client
sites) and WAAAAY before Google Mail offered a method to mount your
account space as a network drive. OK, the Google/ICQ method is a bit
cheesy and mixing relatively old tech with relatively new tech, but it
works and it's /free/.

</ramble>

Cheers,

J

On 1/10/10, Martin <martin at ml1.co.uk> wrote:
> Martin wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> Happy New Year!
>>
>> And I hope all enjoyed whatever festivities or just a nice quiet break.
>>
>> For the first Thursday meet of the year, we have:
>>
>> A GUI Past & Future
>> ===================
>>
>>
>> Whilst doing the Christmas rounds, I was in discussion with various
>> people about how we 'play' with all things players, computers, and
>
>
> And a good if very select session was had despite the cold and snow. One
> geek was showing off a very smart if overly small smartphone for
> go-everywhere connectivity and ssh to back home. Still not sure I'd be
> able to use it with my super fat fingers... And it looks like netbooks
> still rule ok! Anyone seen anything of the new ARM-based machines soon
> to come out?
>
> Nicely varied discussion with only very brief mention of Christmas.
> Looks like true geeks already do have all their toys! There was a short
> but deep little discussion on language and the use of language and of
> how the same written text can be interpreted in many very different ways.
>
> That was a very good reminder as to how 'help files' and manuals can be
> completely unhelpful to users. Also, it backs up many comments I've
> heard that users just do not read what is on the computer screen in
> front of them. I was reminded for over the Christmas period for the
> plethora of trivial 'computer problems' that seemed to gravitate to me
> for fixing 'computer things' for others. Largely, users do not
> understand and have no interest in *any* of the jargon or architectural
> details that we are naturally immersed in with computers...
>
> From that I've a good few ideas for a possible User Interface direction
> beyond what the Moblin user interface is just now lightly touching upon.
>
> I think the biggest hangup for everyone with the mainstream GUIs is the
> very flawed and inconsistent results produced when using mouse buttons:
>
> one click for select;
> two clicks in quick succession for select-and-action;
> click-and-hold to drag something;
> many variations if keyboard keys are pressed also.
>
> That list is typical but those results are not consistent even on the
> same one desktop! For example, one click on a desktop object might
> select it whereas one click on a taskbar object on that same desktop
> will act like a double-click!
>
> Note: A typical user reading this rant of mine will likely not
> understand what is meant by the term "a desktop object". You're at an
> advanced level if you do understand.
>
> Also consider that most people find the double-click to be almost
> impossible to do physically without at least some practice... And there
> is always confusion caused by why or how only one of a sigle-click,
> double-click, or a right-click might be needed...
>
> There must be better ways... (That are intuitive or can be randomly
> guessed and that do not require any deep menus or /any/ manuals...)
>
>
> The Navvy is getting nicely revamped and is already looking an awful lot
> brighter. The beer was good although you need to like Banks bitter. And
> their ADSL + WiFi is finally getting hooked up.
>
>
>> I'll also be putting together a few ideas to post a calendar of talks
>> for the year. What would you like to hear? What interests?
>
> Next foodie social is at YO! Sushi on Tuesday 19/01/2010 pending a
> certain person acquiring discount vouchers for us all. This time we'll
> aim for an earlier start than usual to hopefully be able to get in there
> before any queues.
>
> Next talk 'n' beers is about what happens from switch on of a PC through
> to seeing a desktop displayed, and why it takes such a ridiculously long
> time. Anyone with details of how to speed up that process will be very
> welcome to add comment!! All at the new brighter Navvy on Thursday
> 04/02/2010.
>
>
> We've got a clean calendar at the Navvy for this year both for events
> and for which days to meet. Anyone got any preference what talks, or for
> alternate days?
>
>
>> And are there any volunteers to revamp our long dormant website? (A lot
>> of work was put into the old drupal site. Either resurrect that or at
>> least retrieve the content?)
>
> No takers on that one :-( ... so far?
>
>
> Cheers All,
> Martin
>
> --
> ----------------
> Martin Lomas
> martin at ml1.co.uk
> ----------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nottingham mailing list
> Nottingham at mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/nottingham
>


-- 
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:26:18 +0000
From: Rory Holland <modestforagenius at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [Nottingham] [Talk] Thurs 07/01/2010 A GUI Past & Future
To: "Notts GNU/Linux Users Group" <nottingham at mailman.lug.org.uk>
Message-ID:
	<13123d701001110026o44deaf5dxaf964692f09c9714 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Or how about http://sites.google.com
It seems to be perfect!

2010/1/11 Jim Moore <jmthelostpacket at googlemail.com>

> idea for the website: put the content on a google account (7.5GB there
> so plenty space!) and link it via an iframe on an ICQ account (the
> iframe takes care of the ads n other assorted "goodies" that ice likes
> to foist on you) to take care of the ddns problem right there at the
> registrar end eg www.thiswebsite.com redirects to
> http://members.icq.com/12324567a/ which loads an iframe from your
> server (single page there which takes about 0.0001sec to load, how's
> that for efficiency?) and everything else from a googlemail virtual
> drive. That's what I used to do for my local content before I
> discovered Apache (and the associated bandwidth overhead that
> threatens to melt my modem every time someone hit one of my client
> sites) and WAAAAY before Google Mail offered a method to mount your
> account space as a network drive. OK, the Google/ICQ method is a bit
> cheesy and mixing relatively old tech with relatively new tech, but it
> works and it's /free/.
>
> </ramble>
>
> Cheers,
>
> J
>
> On 1/10/10, Martin <martin at ml1.co.uk> wrote:
> > Martin wrote:
> >> Folks,
> >>
> >> Happy New Year!
> >>
> >> And I hope all enjoyed whatever festivities or just a nice quiet break.
> >>
> >> For the first Thursday meet of the year, we have:
> >>
> >> A GUI Past & Future
> >> ===================
> >>
> >>
> >> Whilst doing the Christmas rounds, I was in discussion with various
> >> people about how we 'play' with all things players, computers, and
> >
> >
> > And a good if very select session was had despite the cold and snow. One
> > geek was showing off a very smart if overly small smartphone for
> > go-everywhere connectivity and ssh to back home. Still not sure I'd be
> > able to use it with my super fat fingers... And it looks like netbooks
> > still rule ok! Anyone seen anything of the new ARM-based machines soon
> > to come out?
> >
> > Nicely varied discussion with only very brief mention of Christmas.
> > Looks like true geeks already do have all their toys! There was a short
> > but deep little discussion on language and the use of language and of
> > how the same written text can be interpreted in many very different
ways.
> >
> > That was a very good reminder as to how 'help files' and manuals can be
> > completely unhelpful to users. Also, it backs up many comments I've
> > heard that users just do not read what is on the computer screen in
> > front of them. I was reminded for over the Christmas period for the
> > plethora of trivial 'computer problems' that seemed to gravitate to me
> > for fixing 'computer things' for others. Largely, users do not
> > understand and have no interest in *any* of the jargon or architectural
> > details that we are naturally immersed in with computers...
> >
> > From that I've a good few ideas for a possible User Interface direction
> > beyond what the Moblin user interface is just now lightly touching upon.
> >
> > I think the biggest hangup for everyone with the mainstream GUIs is the
> > very flawed and inconsistent results produced when using mouse buttons:
> >
> > one click for select;
> > two clicks in quick succession for select-and-action;
> > click-and-hold to drag something;
> > many variations if keyboard keys are pressed also.
> >
> > That list is typical but those results are not consistent even on the
> > same one desktop! For example, one click on a desktop object might
> > select it whereas one click on a taskbar object on that same desktop
> > will act like a double-click!
> >
> > Note: A typical user reading this rant of mine will likely not
> > understand what is meant by the term "a desktop object". You're at an
> > advanced level if you do understand.
> >
> > Also consider that most people find the double-click to be almost
> > impossible to do physically without at least some practice... And there
> > is always confusion caused by why or how only one of a sigle-click,
> > double-click, or a right-click might be needed...
> >
> > There must be better ways... (That are intuitive or can be randomly
> > guessed and that do not require any deep menus or /any/ manuals...)
> >
> >
> > The Navvy is getting nicely revamped and is already looking an awful lot
> > brighter. The beer was good although you need to like Banks bitter. And
> > their ADSL + WiFi is finally getting hooked up.
> >
> >
> >> I'll also be putting together a few ideas to post a calendar of talks
> >> for the year. What would you like to hear? What interests?
> >
> > Next foodie social is at YO! Sushi on Tuesday 19/01/2010 pending a
> > certain person acquiring discount vouchers for us all. This time we'll
> > aim for an earlier start than usual to hopefully be able to get in there
> > before any queues.
> >
> > Next talk 'n' beers is about what happens from switch on of a PC through
> > to seeing a desktop displayed, and why it takes such a ridiculously long
> > time. Anyone with details of how to speed up that process will be very
> > welcome to add comment!! All at the new brighter Navvy on Thursday
> > 04/02/2010.
> >
> >
> > We've got a clean calendar at the Navvy for this year both for events
> > and for which days to meet. Anyone got any preference what talks, or for
> > alternate days?
> >
> >
> >> And are there any volunteers to revamp our long dormant website? (A lot
> >> of work was put into the old drupal site. Either resurrect that or at
> >> least retrieve the content?)
> >
> > No takers on that one :-( ... so far?
> >
> >
> > Cheers All,
> > Martin
> >
> > --
> > ----------------
> > Martin Lomas
> > martin at ml1.co.uk
> > ----------------
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nottingham mailing list
> > Nottingham at mailman.lug.org.uk
> > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/nottingham
> >
>
>
> --
> Vi veri veniversum vivus vici
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nottingham mailing list
> Nottingham at mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/nottingham
>



-- 
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr.
Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers
come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas
that could provoke such a question."
-- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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