[Phpwm] Phpwm Digest, Vol 205, Issue 2

Tue Mar 23 18:30:20 UTC 2010

Hi all,

As a Contract Recruitment Consultant specialising in Software & Web
Development, I am intrigued by your comments related to the 'freeze' in
the average Permanent salary compared to candidate availability. I have
found a similar scenario in the Contract market, with clients unwilling
to raise hourly rates despite the lack of available candidates. Also,
the details of the PHP role with Linux Admin and Android knowledge is
indicative of the state of the current Contract market where clients
expect candidates to 'wear more than one hat'. What seems to be the
exception to the rule is in the knowledge of specialist technical areas,
and the clients that candidates have previously worked for, rather than
purely the quality of websites that candidates have produced. 

Adam Fletcher
Recruitment Consultant
Software Development, Web Design & Development
Computer Futures
PARTNERS IN PEOPLE, SINCE 1986
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>* 1- 3 Newhall Street, Phoenix House, Birmingham, B3 3NH
>* +44 (0)121-607-5858
>* mailto:a.fletcher at computerfutures.com
* http://www.computerfutures.com
>* LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/adamfletch
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
Members of APSCo, R.E.C and BS EN ISO 9002 accredited with over 20 years
recruitment excellence.

-----Original Message-----
From: phpwm-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk
[mailto:phpwm-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk] On Behalf Of
phpwm-request at mailman.lug.org.uk
Sent: 23 March 2010 14:27
To: phpwm at mailman.lug.org.uk
Subject: Phpwm Digest, Vol 205, Issue 2

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:57:04 +0000
From: Ed Lea <edleadesign at gmail.com>
Subject: [Phpwm] Where did all the PHP developers go?
To: phpwm at mailman.lug.org.uk
Message-ID:
	<fc3d05381003230557r834cf17gac71d288deb1e339 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi all,

I've noticed that there are quite a few PHP positions being posted here
and all over the place. I guess I've noticed as I'm looking for one
myself. Has the PHP market always been like this? Seems to me like php
dev salaries should be going up right now if there is such a shortage.
Seems like you could be paying ?30k for a middle-weight dev, where as
most of the conversations I have had seem to put it around ?25k.

I've actually had to look abroad to fill my requirements, working with
some eastern European devs at the moment as I can't get hold of anyone
here!

Would be interested to hear your take on the web development market. If
there is such a scarcity of developers and prices go up, will that
increase be passed on to costs for clients? Who's buying all of this web
development if we're meant to be at such a low point economically?
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:17:03 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tim Williams <T.M.Williams at cs.bham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [Phpwm] Where did all the PHP developers go?
To: West Midlands PHP User Group <phpwm at mailman.lug.org.uk>
Message-ID:
	<alpine.LRH.2.00.1003231310420.6783 at swampling.cs.bham.ac.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII

My guess is that the recession has pushed people towards technology 
choices which are perceived to be cheaper. Assuming you are still in 
buisness, you are still going to have work that needs to be done but
less 
money to do it with. PHP is probably seen as a cheap technology, so we 
as PHP developers benefit, while the up market options suffer. It's the 
Aldi/Lidl effect.

Tim W

-- 
Tim Williams BSc MSc MBCS - Euromotor Autotrain
Web : http://www.autotrain.org
Tel : +44 (0)121 414 2214 (ext 42214 on internal phone)

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:36:35 +0000
From: Mike Tipping <mike at etuna.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Phpwm] Where did all the PHP developers go?
To: West Midlands PHP User Group <phpwm at mailman.lug.org.uk>
Message-ID: <C7CE7463.1BEC8%mike at etuna.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Although cost cutting does mean wages won't go up.

Maybe it's just that in an unstable climate if you have a job you don't
jump ship unless your going to get more security or a much better
salary, and I've not seen a lot of great salaries being offered.

That one earlier today for a graduate PHP dev, linux admin, Android
developer, trainer... All for upto 30K! If that person exists you'll
need to offer than alot more than that.

Cheers

Mike

On 23/3/10 13:17, "Tim Williams" <T.M.Williams at cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote:

> 
> My guess is that the recession has pushed people towards technology 
> choices which are perceived to be cheaper. Assuming you are still in 
> buisness, you are still going to have work that needs to be done but 
> less money to do it with. PHP is probably seen as a cheap technology, 
> so we as PHP developers benefit, while the up market options suffer. 
> It's the Aldi/Lidl effect.
> 
> Tim W

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:51:42 +0000
From: Martin Meredith <martin.meredith at mobilefun.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Phpwm] Where did all the PHP developers go?
To: West Midlands PHP User Group <phpwm at mailman.lug.org.uk>
Message-ID:
	<7081e5921003230651o3dfe1cdat41cb2d9a83ace26e at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Mike Tipping <mike at etuna.co.uk> wrote:

> Although cost cutting does mean wages won't go up.
>
> Maybe it's just that in an unstable climate if you have a job you 
> don't jump ship unless your going to get more security or a much 
> better salary, and I've not seen a lot of great salaries being 
> offered.
>
> That one earlier today for a graduate PHP dev, linux admin, Android 
> developer, trainer... All for upto 30K! If that person exists you'll 
> need to offer than alot more than that.
>

I was thinking that myself!
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:23:41 +0000
From: Richard Cunningham <richard at richardcunningham.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Phpwm] Where did all the PHP developers go?
To: West Midlands PHP User Group <phpwm at mailman.lug.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4BA8CEED.7000109 at richardcunningham.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Really there seem to a lot of jobs for "upto ?30k" and very little 
interest. That one especially seemed to be asking  for rather a lot.

Maybe it's an age thing. Are the University students learning PHP 
nowadays? on their courses they often learn Java or C# and in their own 
time Python and Ruby are cool, so do any of them learn PHP?

It looks like the *average* salary for someone doing PHP is ?30k and if 
you look at the "salary histogram" a lot of people already earn at least

?25k doing PHP, so maybe ?30k isn't enough of a jump in this economic 
climate: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/php.do

Mike Tipping wrote:
> Although cost cutting does mean wages won't go up.
>
> Maybe it's just that in an unstable climate if you have a job you 
> don't jump ship unless your going to get more security or a much 
> better salary, and I've not seen a lot of great salaries being 
> offered.
>
> That one earlier today for a graduate PHP dev, linux admin, Android 
> developer, trainer... All for upto 30K! If that person exists you'll 
> need to offer than alot more than that.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> On 23/3/10 13:17, "Tim Williams" <T.M.Williams at cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>   
>> My guess is that the recession has pushed people towards technology 
>> choices which are perceived to be cheaper. Assuming you are still in 
>> buisness, you are still going to have work that needs to be done but 
>> less money to do it with. PHP is probably seen as a cheap technology,

>> so we as PHP developers benefit, while the up market options suffer. 
>> It's the Aldi/Lidl effect.
>>
>> Tim W
>>     
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Phpwm mailing list
> Website : http://www.phpwm.org
> Twitter : http://www.twitter.com/phpwm
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2361609907
>
> Post to list: Phpwm at mailman.lug.org.uk
> Archive etc : https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/phpwm
>
>   

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:27:15 +0000
From: Stephen Orr <steve at stephenorr.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Phpwm] Where did all the PHP developers go?
To: West Midlands PHP User Group <phpwm at mailman.lug.org.uk>
Message-ID:
	<d122a5411003230727r3c540cf5xda531304a57171fb at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

You guys should all be happy you're living down here... average salary
back up North is more like 20k, you have to move into the cities to get
anywhere near the average around here (that's one of the reasons I
relocated to the Midlands).

I saw the job posting too... general opinion seems to be, double that
salary and you might get someone interested!

Steve

On 23 March 2010 14:23, Richard Cunningham
<richard at richardcunningham.co.uk>wrote:

> Really there seem to a lot of jobs for "upto ?30k" and very little 
> interest. That one especially seemed to be asking  for rather a lot.
>
> Maybe it's an age thing. Are the University students learning PHP 
> nowadays? on their courses they often learn Java or C# and in their 
> own time Python and Ruby are cool, so do any of them learn PHP?
>
> It looks like the *average* salary for someone doing PHP is ?30k and 
> if you look at the "salary histogram" a lot of people already earn at 
> least ?25k doing PHP, so maybe ?30k isn't enough of a jump in this 
> economic
> climate: http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/php.do
>
> Mike Tipping wrote:
> > Although cost cutting does mean wages won't go up.
> >
> > Maybe it's just that in an unstable climate if you have a job you 
> > don't
> jump
> > ship unless your going to get more security or a much better salary,

> > and I've not seen a lot of great salaries being offered.
> >
> > That one earlier today for a graduate PHP dev, linux admin, Android 
> > developer, trainer... All for upto 30K! If that person exists you'll

> > need
> to
> > offer than alot more than that.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 23/3/10 13:17, "Tim Williams" <T.M.Williams at cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> My guess is that the recession has pushed people towards technology

> >> choices which are perceived to be cheaper. Assuming you are still 
> >> in buisness, you are still going to have work that needs to be done

> >> but
> less
> >> money to do it with. PHP is probably seen as a cheap technology, so

> >> we as PHP developers benefit, while the up market options suffer. 
> >> It's the Aldi/Lidl effect.
> >>
> >> Tim W
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phpwm mailing list
> > Website : http://www.phpwm.org
> > Twitter : http://www.twitter.com/phpwm
> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2361609907
> >
> > Post to list: Phpwm at mailman.lug.org.uk
> > Archive etc : https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/phpwm
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Phpwm mailing list
> Website : http://www.phpwm.org
> Twitter : http://www.twitter.com/phpwm
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2361609907
>
> Post to list: Phpwm at mailman.lug.org.uk
> Archive etc : https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/phpwm
>
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End of Phpwm Digest, Vol 205, Issue 2
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