Democracy (was : RE: [SC.LUG] Bill Gates to be Knighted?)

Tue Feb 3 16:19:12 GMT 2004

If you really want to know just how our current government views British
society, then you should read Giddens, A. 'Sociology'. I found it pretty
patronising.

Jason.

On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 16:02, Gareth Westwood wrote:
> Matthew Tolley wrote:
> 
> >Hi Guys!
> >
> >Sorry I missed you - I've been on the beach and taking time out this last
> >couple of weeks - you even had a big debate and didn't invite me you
> >rotters!!
> >  
> >
> He says, after being on the beach?
> 
> Sorry, must point out as I'm new that I rarely say anything in a {nasty, 
> abusive, told you so} fashion. please take all {seemingly,possibly} 
> {arrogant, rude, down talking} comments as sarcasm unless otherwise 
> stated-----No Really this bit is serious.
> 
> >Hmmm, a democratic society? Let me think...
> >
> >First, we abolish the office of Prime Minister and instead have all Senior
> >Ministers elected directly by the people - the Chancellor, Transport
> >Minister, Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary etc. At this point we would also
> >need to create a Minister of Elections and Referenda.
> >  
> >
> Sounds good
> 
> >Second, we remove all legislative powers from Parliament and have all laws
> >made, amended and repealed by referendum. Once a month we all get a report
> >of the questions to be put, go down to the polling station and put ticks or
> >crosses next to the questions on the card, plus we choose our preferred
> >candidate for office if an election is taking place at the same time.
> >If we want to put a question to referendum oursleves, we just collect a
> >reasonable number of signatures (say 5000), forward them to the Minister for
> >Referenda, and our question appears nationwide the next month. Ministers
> >could also be elected, sacked and replaced by referendum.
> >  
> >
> Maybe a few more signatures would be better. (or maybe not)
> 
> >Next, we scrap Parliament and replace it with an Elected Council of, say, 20
> >wise and senior persons which will act as a Watchdog over the democracy. It
> >will have the power to summon Ministers, demand accounts, hear witnesses,
> >and generally make sure that everyone is doing their job honestly. It should
> >have the power to sack Ministers in cases of serious abuse, and call an
> >election for a replacement to be chosen. No legislative powers though.
> >  
> >
> Excellent, do these guys fall fowl to the......
> 
>  >John Southern wrote:
> 
> >How about a government department that can give people a good kicking.
> >Very hard to get in, but then exempt from law.
> >
> >Sell drugs to kids - two kneecaps
> >Litter - slap around the head
> >Drunk drive - broken leg
> >Support Man City - publicly laughed at (Hold on that one already works)
> 
>                                people if they step out of line or fail 
> to do there job properly?
> 
> >Also, we give precedence to smaller rather than larger groups. If the people
> >of Cheshire want to keep their District Councils, they can have a local
> >referendum to decide the matter (it should not be decided by Diktat of
> >Number 10, as is happening now). If the people of Derbyshire want to reduce
> >the voting age to 16 in their County, they can pass such a law. If the
> >people of North Staffordshire want their own Minister of Health, they can
> >enact that, and secede from the NHS! If the people of Nantwich want to
> >legalise Cannabis in Nantwich, they can decide that too. If Macclesfield
> >wants to ban newspapers and magazines containing nudity, they can do. If
> >Wilmslow wants to make nude pictures in newspapers compulsory, it could do.
> >Congleton wants to scrap income tax for its residents? Let them scrap it!
> >Local citizens would have the power to decide the boundaries, offices and
> >powers of their local authorities.
> >  
> >
> Methinks there would have to be a lower size limit. Otherwise my family 
> could decide that within our house it's ok not to go to church on 
> Sundays. Or would we need 5000 sigs to put this law up for the 4 of us 
> to vote on?
> 
> >You get the picture.
> >
> >Lastly, you enshrine these principles in a written constitution. There could
> >be a few minimum standards of human rights in the constitution - no law,
> >however popular, should be passed preventing someone from leaving a
> >particular district, or leaving the country, for example. The localities
> >should be prevented from raising private armies to prevent civil war, as
> >another example. Other than those basics, leave it to the people.
> >  
> >
> But private armys are good thing.
> 
> >If you wanted the democracy to have a figurehead, you could have an elected
> >Predident or a monarchy. Just let the people decide. The system would still
> >work like clockwork whichever we chose.
> >  
> >
> Long live the Queen, (yes I know that Freddies Dead but the rest are 
> still with us)
> 
> >Any objections to this democratic system, chaps?
> >
> >Jason, what do you think?
> >
> >
> >
> >Matthew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: sc-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk
> >[mailto:sc-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk]On Behalf Of Jason Lucas
> >Sent: 25 January 2004 22:55
> >To: dh at iucr.org
> >Cc: South Cheshire GNU/Linux Users; Debbie Lucas; Rob Smith
> >Subject: Re: [SC.LUG] Bill Gates to be Knighted?
> >
> >
> >Or, as commonly quoted by Archaeologists - it's not what you know, it's
> >who you know. Weber wrote some stuff about that - essentially it's the
> >old boy's/girl's network. i.e - never underestimate the power of the
> >Women's Institute, or indeed, the existent Aristocracy. There is no such
> >thing as a truly democratic society. Never has been, never will be.
> >
> >However, I would be interested in views on how a purely democratic
> >society would work.
> >
> >Jason.
> >
> >
> >On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 20:37, David Holden wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>On Sunday 25 Jan 2004 8:19 pm, Jason Lucas wrote:
> >>    
> >>
> >>>According to the Telegraph
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/25/ngates25.x
> >  
> >
> >>>ml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/25/ixnewstop.html) (& reported on slashdot), Bill
> >>>Gates is apparently due for a Knighthood. Presumably this will be part
> >>>      
> >>>
> >of
> >  
> >
> >>>the terms and conditions for Newham Council's budget M$ deal that
> >>>      
> >>>
> >displaced
> >  
> >
> >>>Linux as a contender for the Council's desktop environment. If other
> >>>councils follow suit, does that mean that Gates will be made next
> >>>      
> >>>
> >in-line
> >  
> >
> >>>for the throne?
> >>>
> >>>Can you image it - Long Live King Bill Gates III!
> >>>
> >>>ttfn
> >>>
> >>>Jason.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>It would just prove what a joke the honours are - its all about patronage.
> >>
> >> Dave.
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
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> >SC at mailman.lug.org.uk
> >http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/sc
> >
> >
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> >http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/sc
> >
> >  
> >
> 