[Sussex] A rant on using different distributions

[Paul Tansom]

Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote:
> Steve Dobson wrote:
<snip>
>>> Here's a little example of how to install in Gentoo vs how to install
>>> in Debian:
>>>
>>> Gentoo:
>>>
>>> emerge -s packageName
>>> emerge packageName
>>>
>>> Debian:
>>>
>>> apt-cache search packageName
>>> apt-get install packageName
>>>
>>> Why do I need to use two seperate tools to find and then install a
>>> package???
>>
>> Because the two commands are trying to do two different things, and
>> in good *nix tradition have been separated.  apt-cache is there to
>> manipulate and integrate the APT cache, apt-get is there to put data
>> from remote locations and install them.  These are two very different
>> tasks, although they do work on the same data set.
> 
> Fair enough, but why call it apt-cache? Why not apt-search or apt-find?

Because, quoting from the description:

apt-cache  performs  a  variety  of  operations on APT's package cache.
apt-cache does not manipulate the state of the system but does provide
operations to search and generate interesting output from the package
metadata.

and:

apt-get is the command-line tool for handling packages, and may be
considered the user's "back-end" to other tools  using  the  APT
library. Several  "front-end"  interfaces  exist,  such as dselect(8),
aptitude, synaptic, gnome-apt and wajig.

<snip>
>>> It gives proper error messages like "This package will not be
>>> installed because it is blocked by package x. Please remove that
>>> package before installing this one."
>>>
>>> Debian simply said "This package depends on package x, but it's not
>>> going to be installed".  WHY THE F**K NOT? TELL ME WHAT I NEED TO DO
>>> TO STOP THIS HAPPENING!  DON'T JUST TELL ME YOU CAN'T DO IT! [1]

Re-reading this I guess the Debian message could have added the words
"please install it", but I guess that's obvious to most ;) Additionally,
does the Gentoo error tell me what to do if I don't want to uninstall
package x? (other than imply not installing the new package!).

> One of the initial problems I had with this distro was that the sources
> were mixed.  I have now changed them all to point to the debian-stable
> mirrors and I'm having issues installing something as basic (with regard
> to importance, not code) as CUPS.

So if somebody created a modified version of Gentoo with a new set of
sources for the packages you would expect to be able to switch back to
the original Gentoo ones and continue as if you'd installed from the
main Gentoo ones all along?

>>> My advice from now on to anyone that cares to take it is this:
>>>
>>> If you want a small footprint that is quick to install but completely
>>> non-sensical to maintain, use debian.  If you're willing to wait for
>>> the added stability and tuning that compiling your own software
>>> through an easy-to-use, understandable command-line interface ( and
>>> let's face it, with the speed of machines that are out at the moment,
>>> it's not a huge difference!) use Gentoo.
>>
>> I would warn everyone from taking advice form someone who doesn't know
>> what they are doing, and Matt clearly doesn't when it comes to Debian.
> 
> *ouch* - fair point, I don't and maybe that is the problem, but I can't
> find any _truely useful_ documentation about installing Damn Small Linux
> and getting it to do what you want it too.

So your problem is with Damn Small Linux which us a customised
derivative of Debian and not Debian itself. I've no idea what
differences there are between the two, but clearly it seems that DSL has
modified the sources and therefore you are trying to update from a
different set of sources to those you installed from - sounds like the
root to the problem to me.

It's a bit like saying don't use Red Hat because Mandrake is naff (OK,
they've drifted further apart now) or don't use Red Hat because White
Box is bad (maybe to close to the original this time!).

> <snip>
>> Okay, you've had your rant and I've had mine.  But I'm wondering why you
>> installed DSL on a laptop.  Why not Debian itself?
> 
> The laptop is a 1.4GHz with 512Mb RAM.  I chose DSL because it is small
> and light-weight.  Gentoo needs a minimal install space (without X) of
> about 1Gb.  DSL's inital foot-print (including X), is 50Mb.  The smaller
> distro I use, the larger amount of space I have for my logs, images and
> code.

I'm assuming the limitation is disk space and not processing power. I
was running Debian on a 750MHz laptop with 256M RAM and half of a 10G HD
(dual boot) and until a recent upgrade my primary Debian box was 1.2GHz
with 512M RAM - now I have an Athlon 2600+ but still the 512M RAM until
I plug another 512M in. The only time I've felt restricted my disk space
is when I was in the Windows boot of the laptop (the other 5G), which
doesn't really count does it! ;)

-- 
Paul Tansom | Aptanet Ltd. | http://www.aptanet.com/