[Sussex] A rant on using different distributions

[Matthew Macdonald-Wallace]

Mr Dobson! I wondered if you'd reply to this... ;)

Steve Dobson wrote:
> Matthew
> 
<snip>

> 
>>Now that I've got the distro up and running, I've been playing with 
>>apt.  so far my impression is this - it's crap.
> 
> 
> You sound like someone who is frustrated at your lack of understanding
> and are blaming your tools rather than seeking to educate yourself.

This is after nearly a month of searching forums, uninstalling, 
re-installing, googling and experimenting.  I've been trying to educate 
myself and it just doesn't seem to be working.  I really can't remember 
the learning curve for Gentoo - Steep as it is - being this difficult.

> I've just installed JBoss on my laptop.  It's the first time I've got
> it working, although I have tried three or four times before.  Why was
> it different this time - simple, I found the document that lead me
> through the process correctly.  Is certainly isn't that JBoss was
> crap and now is okay - I'm sure v3.x is just a good as v4.x, the big
> change is me.

I'm still searching for the Docs to guide me through setting stuff up on 
this box... :)

> 
>>Here's a little example of how to install in Gentoo vs how to install in 
>>Debian:
>>
>>Gentoo:
>>
>>emerge -s packageName
>>emerge packageName
>>
>>Debian:
>>
>>apt-cache search packageName
>>apt-get install packageName
>>
>>Why do I need to use two seperate tools to find and then install a 
>>package???
> 
> 
> Because the two commands are trying to do two different things, and
> in good *nix tradition have been separated.  apt-cache is there to
> manipulate and integrate the APT cache, apt-get is there to put data
> from remote locations and install them.  These are two very different
> tasks, although they do work on the same data set.

Fair enough, but why call it apt-cache? Why not apt-search or apt-find?

> Either emerge is not trying to do as much as the apt system or it is
> doing more than one job and is heading to bloatware country.  I
> suspect that it is the former, and I am not putting emerge down here,
> just to say that one is not the same as the other.

emerge may well be doing the latter, it may well be heading towards 
Bloatware, but it means that I only need to learn one command, and that, 
imho, means that it's quicker to use and easier to maintain.

> 
>>Error reporting in Gentoo is great.
> 
> 
> So I have heard, and I congratulate Gentoo for that.
> 
> 
>>It gives proper error messages like 
>>"This package will not be installed because it is blocked by package x. 
>>Please remove that package before installing this one."
>>
>>Debian simply said "This package depends on package x, but it's not 
>>going to be installed".  WHY THE F**K NOT? TELL ME WHAT I NEED TO DO TO 
>>STOP THIS HAPPENING!  DON'T JUST TELL ME YOU CAN'T DO IT! [1]
> 
> 
> Because it can't!  It does report why the package can't be installed.  They
> only two I've see are:
>   1). Because the package isn't in the database, or
>   2). Version problems.
> 
> I would guess that your /etc/apt/sources.list you may have mixed your
> releases or you may be missing an achieve.  On stable pure Debian 
> setups I've never seen this.  I have seen it when I add third party
> achieves into my apt config to try and get around downloading and
> compiling the software myself.

One of the initial problems I had with this distro was that the sources 
were mixed.  I have now changed them all to point to the debian-stable 
mirrors and I'm having issues installing something as basic (with regard 
to importance, not code) as CUPS.

> 
> 
>>My advice from now on to anyone that cares to take it is this:
>>
>>If you want a small footprint that is quick to install but completely 
>>non-sensical to maintain, use debian.  If you're willing to wait for the 
>>added stability and tuning that compiling your own software through an 
>>easy-to-use, understandable command-line interface ( and let's face it, 
>>with the speed of machines that are out at the moment, it's not a huge 
>>difference!) use Gentoo.
> 
> 
> I would warn everyone from taking advice form someone who doesn't know
> what they are doing, and Matt clearly doesn't when it comes to Debian.

*ouch* - fair point, I don't and maybe that is the problem, but I can't 
find any _truely useful_ documentation about installing Damn Small Linux 
and getting it to do what you want it too.

<snip>

>>/me stands down from soap box, dons flame-proof jacket and fdisks every 
>>debian mirror he can find...
> 
> 
> You leave my Debian mirror alone or I'll come over to your place and 
> bit you knee caps off!!!  :-)
> 
> Okay, you've had your rant and I've had mine.  But I'm wondering why you
> installed DSL on a laptop.  Why not Debian itself?

The laptop is a 1.4GHz with 512Mb RAM.  I chose DSL because it is small 
and light-weight.  Gentoo needs a minimal install space (without X) of 
about 1Gb.  DSL's inital foot-print (including X), is 50Mb.  The smaller 
distro I use, the larger amount of space I have for my logs, images and 
code.

Matt