[SWLUG] Re: Starting with Linux

[Bryn Reeves]

On 17:17 Thu 20 Jan     , Foeh Mannay wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 23:43, Adam Rykala wrote:
> > In my Suse install I double click on a RPM and install. 
> 
> Now either SuSE has come on a LONG way since I last used it, or that's a
> slight exaggeration...

Have you actually tried this recently? A lot of people have been lying to 
me if this is broken...

> When I last used SuSE (and redhat for that matter) clicking on an RPM
> *tried* to install it, but invariably came back with broken
> dependancies. At which point I'd download all the dependancies (painful)

Oh, come on! Please try an up to date version :-D

The '--aid' switch has been implemented for some time now (Automatically
Install Dependencies, or 'help me out' if you prefer...):

>From the man page:

'--aid  Add suggested packages to the transaction set when needed.'

Also, with tools such as yum, up2date and apt-rpm (or Red Hat Network /
Proxy / Sattelite if you have a budget..), package installation and
update is as easy on RPM based distros as anywhere else.. with choices!

> and try to install them. Then I'd have even more failed dependancies. I
> think I could count the number of apps I upgraded via RPM on one hand!
> Tarballs proved to be far more reliable, and ironically, much easier!

Hmm. Did you ever have to (completely!) remove any of those hand-managed
packages? Or manage large & complex update sets without clobbering a dep? 
I did the tarball thing for years myself, but nowadays I write a .spec 
file and build an RPM from the tarball because I value the management 
capabilities. The only straight-from-source work I do now is
experimental or development work, and that's kept strictly under ~/ or
/usr/local...  

Personally, I have probably upgraded thousands of packages on dozens of
machines via these tools, and in my experience, it 'just works' in the
vast majority of cases.

> YaST was just worthless.

Ok, we agree on this point! ;) 

> I use debian now, and I have no problems any more. Overnight I went from
> hours of toiling for each app to banging in a one-liner and going for a
> drink.

Yeah, me too! 

> I can just apt-get it!

Yeah, me too! 

But I use a mix of RHEL, Fedora & occasionally Gentoo (for self torture, 
and to remind myself why I like binary packages :). 

See:
http://dag.wieers.com/home-made/apt/

> Does the one in SuSE truly work now? Is YaST finally usable?

<joke> Yes. For some values of 'useable' ;) </joke>

But seriously, FUD is FUD no matter where it comes from. Each system has
its merits, upon which comparisons should be based, but RPM gets a lot of 
undue stick. It's a PACKAGE MANAGER, not an update agent, nor a software 
delivery framework. If you want those functions, install one of the tools 
mentioned above which actually aim to provide this. I doubt most Debian 
users would be so happy if they had to use dpkg for all their software 
administration needs... Live and let live is all I'm saying. 

Incidentally, there's a log of me installing mono-extras + deps on a
decrepit old PII 233 via apt at the foot of this mail, just to
demonstrate a complexish install by banging in a one liner on Fedora. 

Just my $0.02 worth..

Bryn. 
--
Welsh ex-pat & RPM biggot :-)


[root at bishop root]# apt-get install mono-extras
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
libicu mono-core
The following NEW packages will be installed:
libicu mono-core mono-extras
0 upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 removed and 14 not upgraded.
Need to get 15.3MB of archives.
After unpacking 34.8MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
Get:1 http://apt.sw.be fedora/1/en/i386/dag libicu 2.6.2-1.rhfc1.dag [4777kB]
Get:2 http://apt.sw.be fedora/1/en/i386/dag mono-core1.0.5-1.1.fc1.rf [10.4MB]
Get:3 http://apt.sw.be fedora/1/en/i386/dag mono-extras1.0.5-1.1.fc1.rf [106kB]
Fetched 15.3MB in 4m23s (57.9kB/s)
Committing changes...
Preparing...       ########################################### [100%]
  1:libicu         ########################################### [ 33%]
  2:mono-core      ########################################### [ 67%]
  3:mono-extras    ########################################### [100%]
Done.
[root at bishop root]#