[Wolves] I'm back!

Wed Aug 6 13:44:00 2003

Thanks Jono.  I appreciate your response, and it does re-assure me,
along with Steve's response.  I've not enjoyed having to play the
straight guy here, since that feels very one-dimensional.  I hope I've
also managed to convince one or two of you that I'm not the
crypto-fascist you thought I was initially :) (joke!!).

My apologies to you for misreading the intention of parts of your
original e-mail.

It was my intention to join you at the Moon Under Water at some point,
but by the end of yesterday I did wonder whether I would feel the
proverbial pork butcher at a barmitsva.  Not so now (so we may yet make
it Moggy!).

Regards,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Jono Bacon [mailto:jonobacon@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: 06 August 2003 12:43
To: wolves@mailman.lug.org.uk
Subject: RE: [Wolves] I'm back!

Chris,

Sorry if I have caused some confusion here, but my
comment was actually intended as a joke - I have no
interest in illigal activity at either LUG meetings
nor on this list, and if any of it is present it will
be discouraged.

I set up this LUG to discuss Linux and the issues
surrounding it, and naturally some of us differ in
opinions, many related to the law and it's
implementation. As an example I know Fizzy (long time
LUG member) is interested a lot in the legal
implications of computer usage. Although there are
certainly people on this list (and pretty much every
other computer interest list) who have an interest in
security and possibly have knowledge that could be
used to break the law with computers (remember that
security is a double edged sword - if you know
prevention, you possibly know attack). Although I know
and respect these members for their knowledge of
security, I cannot condone any discussion of illigal
activity on this list - and this includes pirating
softwre, breaching security illigally and other
crimes. Discussion to the rights and wrongs of these
actions is however encouraged.

Chris, one thing you will get to know about me when
you come to a LUG meet is that I tend you joke quite a
lot, and sometimes it is in the wrong situation - I
have been away in Germany for 5 days and got back to
44 messages on the list, many of which were discussing
this subject. I thought I would chip in and share my
views and in there was a joke that was misinterpreted.

One thing I must stress about this LUG though is that
we are a  bit different from many LUGs, and this can
only be truly experienced at a LUG meeting. We do not
just sit down and discuss Linux from 7.30 until the
pub closes - we discuss all manner of topics, and we
like to stress the social aspect of the LUG. We like
to meet and have fun and chat with like minded folks -
this atmosphere is very different from this list - I
strongly suggest you pop down to a LUG and be a part
of it. You will then see that many of us tell
extremely bad jokes also. :)

I hope this has helped to clear the air and help
ratify my original intent.

  Jono

--- Chris Owen <chris.owen@wmro.org> wrote:
> Jono,
>=20
> You're looked to, I guess, both on this list and in
> the wider Linux
> community, as a leader of opinion, and as a
> respected expert.  You're
> also a fine technical writer, as I know from reading
> your work.
>=20
> However, and it pains me to say this, what you
> appear to be saying is
> 'don't advertise your illegal activity on here, but
> tell us about it at
> meetings, when we'll all be very interested'.  So
> the subtext is 'nudge,
> wink, its OK really but don't shout about it in
> public'?
>=20
> This from a community which wants to gain widespread
> public knowledge
> and acceptance of computer OS.  I got interested in
> Linux primarily
> because I disliked Microsoft's business practices,
> and because I liked
> the idea of an open, free and communally created set
> of software.  I'm
> afraid that whilst Linux is associated with a
> community which tacitly
> acknowledges illegal activity, and attempts to
> justify it, then it will
> always remain marginal.  Can you imagine what a CEO
> of a major
> corporation or public organisation would conclude
> looking at this?
> Certainly not that Linux is something that he or she
> would willingly
> incorporate into their organisation!
>=20
> Jono - if this is the Linux community, I'm wondering
> whether I want to
> be part of it.  And certainly I'm considering my
> continued membership of
> this list.  That said with considerable regret, and
> not an
> inconsiderable degree of soul searching overnight.
>=20
> Chris
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jono Bacon [mailto:jonobacon@yahoo.com]=20
> Sent: 06 August 2003 01:45
> To: wolves@mailman.lug.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [Wolves] I'm back!
>=20
> Heya,
>=20
> Late response from me as I have been headbanging at
> Wacken in Germany. :)
>=20
> I agree with Vinnie here. alex seems a nice lad and
> I
> don't consider him any major threat to security - he
> has just done something stupid and no doubt regrets
> doing it. I reckon most people have taken at least a
> passing interest in the whole phreaking thing - I
> certainly did, but I lacked the balls to have a go
> and
> knew that I would most certainly get caught. I think
> Alex's parents did the right thing and I am sure
> Alex
> knows that any kind of promotion of breaching
> security
> systems illigally is officially not condoned at the
> LUG, although there may be the odd presentation here
> and there about techniques to educate the LUG about
> security riskss. ;)
>=20
> The case in point here is that bragging about
> commiting a crime is simply not acceptable on this
> list - if anyone, and I mean anyone does it, they
> will
> be warned and possibly removed - I don't promote
> crime
> in any way and I don't want it on this list. If you
> crack illigally, tell me at LUGs and not on this
> list.
> :)
>=20
> Welcome back Alex and come to the LUG meets to tell
> us
> more about this. :)
>=20
>   Jono "CptMassiveBunch" Bacon
>=20
> --- Si Griffiths <info@a2rt.org> wrote:
> > > In difference, it seems, to pretty much everyone
> > else here, I'm not
> > > going to be a hypocrite and I'm just going to
> > suffice by saying...
> > >
> > > Welcome back, Goththing.
> >=20
> > I'm with Dan on this one. I remember Goththing
> > coming to his first lug meeting=20
> > (where he actually got in the pub) on the same
> night
> > that me & steve came to=20
> > our meeting - and he seemed to me to be a sound
> lad
> > (no matter what his=20
> > misdemeanors) - so yeah alex a big warm welcome
> back
> > from the brummie crew :D
> >=20
> > In addition to this all the talk that's been goin
> on
> > today about morality and=20
> > the law is completely misplaced - the law is there
> > to maintain the status quo=20
> > - in short to keep the rich & powerful (these days
> > those in the corporate=20
> > world) where they are ie rich & powerful. Morality
> &
> > the law have nothing=20
> > whatsoever to do with each other. The idea that
> the
> > two are connected is a=20
> > mendacious lie put about by those in power. If you
> > believe this propaganda=20
> > well . . .
> >=20
> > On top of this it might be worth pointing out that
> > the public lose more money=20
> > to corporate tax evasion (something like a third,
> > yes a third, of all=20
> > corporate tax goes unpaid - which is obviously
> > billions, that in a saner=20
> > world could be put into stuff like say schools,
> > hospitals, maybe even a=20
> > transport infrastructure), so to moan about how
> > 'script kiddies' are doing=20
> > you out of your hard earned dollar, is again
> > somewhat missing the point . . .=20
> > *end rant*
> >=20
> > Vinnie
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wolves mailing list
> > Wolves@mailman.lug.org.uk
> > http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/wolves
>=20
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Jono Bacon - http://www.jonobacon.org/
> Web Developer - Musician - Writer - Freelancer
>=20
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Jono Bacon - http://www.jonobacon.org/
Web Developer - Musician - Writer - Freelancer

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