[Wolves] I'm back!

Old Dan wolves at mailman.lug.org.uk
Mon Aug 11 14:59:00 2003

Jon Farmer wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Old Dan" <dan@dannyboy.dnsalias.org>
>>If you think they're criminals then you think I'm a criminal.
> Err No! A criminal is someone who has commited a crime. AFAIK you haven't
OK, but you think I'd be a criminal if I were in their shoes.  Actually, 
thinking about it, they have as clean a criminal record as I do - they 
were acquitted, remember?

My point was I'd act in exactly the same way.

>>The way I see this case is simple:  If you condemn them then you condone
>>genocide.  You also condemn the likes of the suffragettes in this
>>country and the civil rights movement in the US who broke many laws in
>>their fight for liberation.
> That is a simple way of viewing it, and incidently  you assume incorrectly a
> lot!
Why?  They all broke the letter of the law.

Yes, it /is/ a simple way of viewing it, but then this is a relatively 
simple matter IMV:
1) Genocide is bad.
2) Anything that stops genocide from happening is good, short of hurting 
or killing people.
3) Sorry but nuts to whether it is against the law or not.

> What? I said 2 wrongs dont make a right. That means I think genocide is
> a crime!!!
...and yet you condemn those who use direct action to try and stop it.

>>Personally I think it's absurd that anyone would even countenance
>>backing BAe in a case like this - the jury certainly didn't.  The
>>government of Indonesia is guilty of systematic, documented crimes
>>against humanity, BAe is guilty of supplying them with the tools to
>>carry out those crimes, and the Government is guilty of idling by and
>>letting all this happen, when legal measures could easily be taken to
>>stop it.  Should have known really, there's no significant oil reserve
>>in Indonesia.
> Who said I backed BAe? When did I say they were innocent?
You condemned those who attacked the planes.  Sorry, plane.  Just 
remembered there was only one.

>>As to the point of 'they should have gone through the courts...' that
>>could take years, by which time the planes would have been used in the
>>murder of civilians.  (BTW they called for exactly that action to be
>>taken after they were acquitted)
> No justice system is perfect but I would rather do things democratically
...and in the meantime allow genocide to take place?  No thanks.

Actually, this is getting more than a little flamey, as well as being 
pretty much totally OT.  By all means let's continue this debate, but I 
think it might be better if we did it off-list.