[Wylug-discuss] Work Experience

[Dave Fisher]

On Fri, Nov 05, 2004 at 12:32:30PM +0000, Jim Jackson wrote:
>
> On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, Aaron Crane wrote:
>
> >......  What I've seen of other groups that use
> >both IRC and mailing lists (which isn't much, admittedly) suggests that
> >(a) plenty of people avoid IRC and stick to the mailing lists, without
> >either feeling that they're missing something or being marginalised by
> >those that do use IRC; and (b) IRC tends to get used as a purely social
> >thing, rather than as a forum for discussion.  I think that even if we
> >did have an IRC channel, we'd still retain the lengthy and thoughtful
> >debates for which the WYLUG lists are famed.
>
> I think I'm with Aaron here.
>
> There are cultural differences - different folks different strokes etc
> and some people just like hanging out there on IRC - others don't.
>
> While many of us don't have that sort of time, I'd like to hope that if
> there were WYLUGers who wanted IRC and were prepared to organise a channel
> somewhere, we'd not object to it's setup. We might indicate we'd not have
> time to participate, but I don't think we shouldn't stop others from
> setting up alternative forms of communication.
>
> So if people want to set this stuff up then I suggest they propose it and
> try it out.
>
> If it's going to carry the WYLUG brand (:-) then reasonable assurances
> about upholding the good name of WYLUG (yes we have one!) etc etc would be
> good.

Perhaps I over-stated my original case.  I don't have any a priori
objection to having IRC as an addition.

I have even less experience of IRCs than Aaron, but my external
observation tends to confirm his view that they are mostly social in
nature.  In this sense, a well regulated IRC could provide a useful
supplement to the basic activity of the group.  If others have time for
it, who am I to object?

My original concern was, however, based on two further observations:
firstly, of OSS project user groups where IRC is used and, secondly, of
newbie paths into the open source community.

I've seen many projects where IRC is used as an alternative to mailing
lists and a few cases where both exist, but the mailing list archives
are entirely empty.  In the latter case there may be no traffic on the
IRC either, but one thing is often common to both: there is no
historical record, FAQ or documentation left behind, i.e. no accumulated
and retained knowledge available to the the newbie, the casual browser
or dedicated researcher.

My general observation of newbie induction is that as the OSS community
expands in scale and complexity, its capacity to socialise its new
members decreases, e.g. newbies are less likely to learn the principles
and methods that have made the community what it is today, and more
likely to make choices purely on the basis of knowledge and experience
they bring from elsewhere.

This behaviour is entirely normal and I have no wish to limit anyone's
right to choose, but the choices made by individuals can have negative
consequences for others (e.g. the growing proportion of Windows-inspired
OSS software design which runs at cross-purposes with traditional Unix
component-based architectures has been known to adversely effect those
who don't even use the stuff).

My obvious fear is that if new wylug members come into the group
exclusively through the IRC, because that's how they are used to
participating in online communities, the group itself may fragment and
the proven benefits of traditional methods may whither.

I am probably being overly paranoid, but I though this elabouration
might clarify the fundamental point it was trying to make in my original
message.

Dave