[Wylug-discuss] Future meetings.........

[Dave Fisher]

On Wed, Sep 14, 2005 at 10:19:37AM +0100, James Holden wrote:
> Dave Fisher wrote:
> >      So please, please, please start contributing as many topic and
> >      speaker ideas as you can think of.  
> 
> This works from both ends.
> 
> Talk offers, regardless of expected interest are still valuable.
> Sometimes the seemingly 'esoteric' talks have sparked an unexpected
> amount of interest and discussion.
> 
> Also, the people who'd be more inclined to give talks can sometimes miss
> obviously needed subjects.

That was one of the specific problems that I had in mind.  

<snip>
> >   2. I'd like most most meetings to have at least 2 talks: one
> >      basic/generic talk and one more advanced/esoteric.  
> >  
> >      Along the line of previous comments in this thread.
> 
> That sounds like a reasonable idea, and ties in with why I see a need
> for a pool of offered talks and a wish list of talk subjects.


Exactly what I had in mind.
> 
> >   3. I'd like try out 'micro-sessions' e.g. 5-10 minute slots where
<snip>
> >      Indeed, these needn't even be talks at all.  Just one good question
> >      along the lines of: "how could I do X" might be sufficient to
> >      stimulate discussion and useful contributions.
> 
> Quite so. I think some of the best discussions often arise from this
> kind of thing.

Agreed.  I've often learnt more from the answers to an after-talk
question, than I learnt from the talk itself.

> 
> >   4. I'd like to to improve the integration between meetings, the
> >      mailing lists and the website.  
> >      
> >      In particular, I'd like to see if we can collate and summarise the
> >      really useful information that people contribute to mailing list
> >      discussions, so that the benefits are less dissipated.
> > 
> >      Ideally, I'd like to trawl back through recent discussions on
> >      popular topics and summarise there findings on a wiki, i.e. so that
> >      members can update and improve them as time goes by.
> 
> Seems reasonable. How about a 'blog' format where we can collate
> interesting things we come across between meetings, possibly for a bit
> of discussion or maybe a talk if it sparks enough interest.

I'm always reluctant to rule out alternatives a priori, and I'm
particularly suspicious of technical solutions to sociological problems,
but in this case I think a (write) access-contolled wiki would be
preferable.

As documentation tools, blogs share at least two of the big
disadvantages of mailing lists, i.e. they tend to be chronologically
organised and thread-based rather than conceptual or problem-based.

Trying to find the nugget of information that you know exists in a blog
or mailing list archive is almost always harder than scanning down a FAQ
or HOWTO.  

The way that mailing list threads tend to break across month/year
boundaries doesn't help, but the fundamental problem is threading
itself: 

  1. Some people simply don't know how to maintain threads properly
  
  2. But often one simply can't be sure whether a new point should
  branch from an existing thread, continue the main thread or start an
  entirely new one.

Part of what I have in mind for a wiki is simply a post-hoc clean-up of
procedudural and conceptual confusion that tends to follow from breaks,
braiding and branching in threaded chronological discussion:

  i.e. we write-up previous discussion so that it follows a clear and
  logical narrative path.

<snip>
> Indeed. Often though, newbies themselves are the best people to do these
> talks. I wouldn't have a clue how to configure a network interface in
> Fedora or Mandrake using the GIU tools.

I broadly agree with the basic point, but if you already know the
underlying configuration mechanisms, it's _usually_ pretty easy to
figure out a distro-specific GUI implementation, i.e. easier than it
would be for the average newbie.

Moreover, the art of teaching and learning new subjects is to find the
balancing point between what the learner already knows and what they
will need to know in the long run.  

For obvious reasons, newbies invariably know little or nothing about the
stuff that they will need in the future.  

Exclusive concentration on finding the quickest solution to the
immediate (_percieved_) problem often prevents the newbie from learning
the underlying logic of Linux/UNIX and, hence, condemns them to
following recipes and chasing down an endless series of red-herrings.

I often find myself recoiling in horror at the confusion and
misinformation that abounds on so many websites 'designed' to give Linux
newbies instant gratification. Sadly, many 'tutorials' and HOWTOs by
supposed experts are often little better.

While I absolutely agree that newbies should be encouraged to contribute
and offer their insights to other newbies (and to experienced users who
are trying to help them), I don't think you can beat the value for
money/time that you get from a decent teacher.

Few of us may be willing or able to become great teachers, but I believe
that most people with basic communication skills can become decent
teachers, given a bit of encouragement, guidance and motivation.

I'd like to see more people having a go at it, especially those who are
unable (for whatever reason) to 'give back' by coding, etc.

<snip>
> OK... I'm happy to contribute some code effort.
> 
> How about a simple system for collecting talk requests and offers, and
> allowing people to express an interest in some way? Voting on offered
> talks could be done, and people could offer availability for giving
> talks on requested subjects.
> 
> Shouldn't be more than an evenings work.

Now we're cooking!  Let's try to get moving on this ASAP, offlist.

This is exactly the sort of thing I'd like to encourage from those with
technical skills, especially those with no great enthusiasm or aptitude
for teaching, talking and writing.

I can think of plenty of similarly small but useful tools/services that
others might contribute.  

I'm sure that other people have more, and better, ideas than the ones
I've thought of, but here a few suggestions:

  1. Install and configure the proposed wiki
  
  2. A very simple web database of members skills/knowledge

     e.g. Distro(s) used, apps needed, specialist app knowledge,
     level/experience, willingess to talk, etc.

  3. Help set up hardware and software for workshops

  4. Act as technical demonstrators for less technical speakers


  etc, etc

Dave