[Wylug-discuss] Future meetings.........

[Anne Wilson]

On Wednesday 14 Sep 2005 12:10, Dave Fisher wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2005 at 10:19:37AM +0100, James Holden wrote:

>
> > Indeed. Often though, newbies themselves are the best people to do
> > these talks. I wouldn't have a clue how to configure a network
> > interface in Fedora or Mandrake using the GIU tools.
>
> I broadly agree with the basic point, but if you already know the
> underlying configuration mechanisms, it's _usually_ pretty easy to
> figure out a distro-specific GUI implementation, i.e. easier than it
> would be for the average newbie.
>
Perhaps for the newbie sessions we could have volunteers to produce a 
laptop with a specific distro and perhaps a mythicalBeing user set up, so 
that we could see how it's done in different distros?  I'd be happy to 
bring my Mandriva along (once I've sorted out this network problem which 
seems to revolve around a faulty router).

> Moreover, the art of teaching and learning new subjects is to find the
> balancing point between what the learner already knows and what they
> will need to know in the long run.
>
> For obvious reasons, newbies invariably know little or nothing about the
> stuff that they will need in the future.
>
Exactly.  Sometimes the biggest problem for a newbie is knowing what 
question to ask.

> Exclusive concentration on finding the quickest solution to the
> immediate (_percieved_) problem often prevents the newbie from learning
> the underlying logic of Linux/UNIX and, hence, condemns them to
> following recipes and chasing down an endless series of red-herrings.
>
Which reminds me - when we made a list of possible subjects in the August 
meeting, did we include something on the lines of "how the file system is 
organised, and why"?  Often editing a text file is the easiest way of 
getting the required result, but you do need to know where to look.

> I often find myself recoiling in horror at the confusion and
> misinformation that abounds on so many websites 'designed' to give Linux
> newbies instant gratification. Sadly, many 'tutorials' and HOWTOs by
> supposed experts are often little better.
>
Agreed - newbies often 'benefit' from some very bad advice.

> While I absolutely agree that newbies should be encouraged to contribute
> and offer their insights to other newbies (and to experienced users who
> are trying to help them), I don't think you can beat the value for
> money/time that you get from a decent teacher.
>
Documentation, and this includes wiki, is one way that non-coders can help.  
Take networking, for instance.  If someone wrote a general page, it would 
be easy for others to add "In Mandriva you need this....."  or "In Suse 
you do......".  That could soon build to a very useful newbie resource.

It's easy enough in a wiki to organise newbie subjects separate from 
"expert" subjects, and the burden of maintenance is shared.

> <snip>
>
> > OK... I'm happy to contribute some code effort.
> >
> > How about a simple system for collecting talk requests and offers, and
> > allowing people to express an interest in some way? Voting on offered
> > talks could be done, and people could offer availability for giving
> > talks on requested subjects.
> >
> > Shouldn't be more than an evenings work.
>
> Now we're cooking!  Let's try to get moving on this ASAP, offlist.
>
> This is exactly the sort of thing I'd like to encourage from those with
> technical skills, especially those with no great enthusiasm or aptitude
> for teaching, talking and writing.
>
> I can think of plenty of similarly small but useful tools/services that
> others might contribute.
>
> I'm sure that other people have more, and better, ideas than the ones
> I've thought of, but here a few suggestions:
>
>   1. Install and configure the proposed wiki
>
>   2. A very simple web database of members skills/knowledge
>
>      e.g. Distro(s) used, apps needed, specialist app knowledge,
>      level/experience, willingess to talk, etc.
>
>   3. Help set up hardware and software for workshops
>
>   4. Act as technical demonstrators for less technical speakers
>
>
>   etc, etc
>
I'll do anything I can.  After 3 years of newbiness I've struggled with 
most common tasks :-)  I don't feel capable of offering a talk on anything 
- I simply don't have enough skills on any front - but the sum of 
experiences must be useful to others in early stages.

Anne
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