[Gllug] GLLUG ->Gnu Linux London Users Group

[Nick Hill]

On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:45:59 +0000
Dan Kolb <dankolb at ox.compsoc.net> wrote:


> Rabid fanaticism about a subject often has the reverse effect you intended. A 
> lot of people have been turned off GNU because of RMS' fanaticism about GNU. 
> I, for example, will not use Debian GNU/Linux on my i386-type PCs precisely 
> for that reason. There have been too many people saying "Debian r0x! I7 i5 
> t3h 31337 l1nuX d1str0!". I have had someone saying (not on this list) that I 
> shouldn't use Slackware (my distro of choice) because 'the package manager is 
> shit, so you should use Debian'. That sort of fanaticism put me off using it, 
> unless I absolutely have to. Note: I don't have anything against Debian per 
> se, just some of the users. Yes, I may be being arsey here, but I have a 
> right. I'm not telling everyone to use Slackware, and I don't want people 
> telling me I should be using Debian.

I am not telling you what you can and cannot do. This is a discourse which might add value to our lives and those around us. 

I am in favour of you and the majority of human kind having freedom of choice. Freedoms which are being taken away from us by  legislatures focussed on the wants of a small handful of very rich corporations.

I am not anti-capitalist. I am pro capitalism. I believe there is no such thing as capitalism without a free market.

Free markets are under threat from government sanctioned monopolies. Monopolies growing through special priveleges handed out in the form of the DMCA, extended patent and copyright terms and scope amongst many others.

> As for making efforts, please say what they are. Which GNU project are you 
> contributing to? Are you talking like Richard Stallman about Freedom, or are 
> you talking like Eric Raymond about cost-effectiveness in adopting Linux?

The cost effectiveness of using Gnu/Linux will be a blip in the time line of this century if we allow our freedoms to continue being eroded. I believe the long term viability of Eric Raymond's vision is dependent on the freedoms Richard Stallman is fighting for.

 
> I admit that I am merely a user of Free software (and some non-free). 
> However, I do answer questions people have on software/hardware to the best 
> of my abilities (and am happy to learn new stuff by listening on various 
> lists, too), and I have contributed by helping give some talks about Linux. 
> This, IMO, is more worthy than merely changing a name.

This is great, and a definate practical help to the community. Changing the name is (I thought) simple. If the community is hostile, then it would be counter- productive to change the name.

 
> > Without the philosophy, GNU/Linux would not exist. Without Richard
> > stallman, the philosophy probably wouldn't exist. Without copyleft, Linux
> 
> Without RMS, the philosophy as *he* has it wouldn't exist. That's not to say 
> that there wouldn't be any free software. The *BSDs are quite happily free 
> without GNU/GPL. If GNU userland didn't exist, people would have taken the 
> BSD userland or written their own (even just for fun). Maybe we'd have to 
> call it BSD/Linux then. More likely we wouldn't.

Non-copyleft code is liable to be annexed in embrace and extend corporate strategies. The Gnu copyleft has made a wall against extend and embrace. This is why you are now hearing anti-GNU/GPL rhetoric from a well known monopolist. GNU/Linux by it's nature, can't be bought. It is one of few things which money does not easily leverage. Through strategic planning, open cource can be annexed and therefore bought.

> 
> > will probably be proprietary and not be as practical as you would like. You
> 
> Bollocks. Linus started it for fun because he didn't like Minix. He released 
> the source code so people could play with it. Without the GPL, it'd have been 
> under a 'do what you like, but don't use it commercially' licence, which is 
> what it originally had (IIRC).

Please see prev. paragraph.

> > are reaping th practical rewards of the GNU philosophy. Please support it.
> 
> Yes, folks. Support GNU. As part of their licence, they have their mailing 
> address. Send them a cheque to show your appreciation. Buy a tape or CD of 
> all their source code.
> 
> > > Yes, many UNIX systems use GNU tools.  So, the difference between these
> > > systems is often the kernel.  Why not call them by the part that's
> > > different, then?  Should my desktop machine become a GNU/FreeBSD machine
> > > because I run gdb, gcc and emacs on it, or shall we just stick to the
> > > _meaningful_ differences between Unices?
> >
> > I have not made this point to create a new practical system of software
> > naming convention. You have missed the point.
> 
> Your point was to put GNU in front of the Linux name. Chris was just 
> extending your argument.

I am not looking to extend the argument. I'm not greedy!


Best Regards


Nick.


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