[Lancaster] Re: Help -- Video importing/processing software

[Martyn Welch]

On Thursday 03 August 2006 09:36, Ken Hough wrote:
> Maybe, maybe not. Who's rules anyway?
>

The kernel hackers rules.

> >I'd suggest that it is the growing userbase demanding that they produce
> > Linux compatible devices which they should be listening to.
>
> Should be? Who can force them to?
>

<shrug /> Their share holders?

I guess no one can force them.

> They will only start scratching (ie listening) when the itch becomes big
> enough to bother with and in spite of what we wish to believe, that
> point remains some way off.
>

Yup.

> I think you are wrong. The commercial world tends to plan for maybe 5
> years ahead, typically less in the IT/computer world. Realisticaly, a
> Linux revolution is not likely to come within that time. Therefore there
> IS a very strong case for companies  to operate amicably alongside
> Microsoft.
>
> I did not say 'tied to' Microsoft. If a viable commercial opportunity is
> presented, most would be happy to dump Microsoft.
>

Yes, though to be in a position to dump microsoft they need to have explored 
other avenues. If they are not producing drivers for what could become 
reasonably sized markets they won't be in a suitable position.

> >>I have used Linux almost exclusively now for several years and wish to
> >>continue with it. I do not wish to recompile my kernel, although I have
> >>done this in the past. It would be nice not to have to go through the
> >>processes of ./configure, make and make install (only to discover that
> >>various packages are missing) to gain some additional functionality. OK,
> >>I know there are reasons why, but this is not for essencially non
> >>technical users.
> >
> >I'll agree with you there. This is where the problem of being in a niche
> > group comes into play.
>
> In these days of 'multimedia', users of webcams are hardly a niche group.
>

But users of one specific family of webcams are.

> >Interestingly on the webcam front there seems to be light at the end of
> > the tunnel (though it's still a little way off):
> >
> >http://linux-uvc.berlios.de/
>
> That's always the problem. Light at the end of the tunnel. Meanwhile
> (possible) light now is being stiffled in the name of 'purity',
> idealism', or call it what you will, and many potential converts will be
> turned off.
>

For now maybe potential converts will be turned off. I don't think this is 
that bigger deal. If windows is still a better trade-off for them at the 
moment then they should continue to use windows...

> I suggest that would be the response from most people who attend large
> gatherings of like minded people, be they political, religious or other
> 'avangelical' meetings. It's very easy to become a convert and to loose
> perspective on the world as a whole.
>

I agree with that.

> I'm now wearing my 'old grey bearded sage' hat. ;-)
>

Looks good ;-)

> It's of little use to develop the best operating system in the world
> unless it can connect with the real world in ways that users want. Most
> potential users have little patience and less technical appreciation of
> what goes on beyond the keyboard/mouse/screen. Many can't even use a
> keyboard properly. They buy a box, take out the contents, plug it in and
> expect it to work.
>

Bad expectations that have been pushed by Microsoft for years and which they 
are still failing to fullfill.

> I still believe that until the Linux community takes this on board,
> Linux will not became a mainstream (ie popular) operating system.
>

I'm not sure that easy-of-use is that much of a blocking factor to the 
adoption of Linux. I think it is a preconceived notion (usually derived from 
windows) of how a computer must work that is the blocking factor. 

Copying the procedures used by windows (in terms of software 
selection/installation hardware support, etc) would probably accelerate the 
growth of Linux at the expense of it becoming a "windows clone".

> I'm sure that if I was not already moderately knowledgable wrt Linux, I
> would have given up and returned to the Microsoft world just to be able
> to actually use my webcam. The difficulty of getting hardware to work
> under Linux has always been a major gripe and putoff for potential (and
> actual) users.
>

I agree, though I also remember why I started using Linux - because I find 
using windows so frustrating and am prepared to make some sacrifices in order 
not to have to live with the frustration.

> The hard fact is that most hardware suppliers are NOT going to provide
> native Linux drivers any time soon. It's been demonstrated that some MS 
> drivers and even MS some applications can be made to run under Linux.
> Surely, it must be possible to arrange for most drivers to
> cooperate/work with Linux.

Possibly. Though many will blame window's stability issues on badly written 
drivers. Those drivers would also be useless for anyone using a non-x86 
platform. 

So it works, until you buy a nice new shiny computer with a 64-bit processor, 
then you either loose the support for the device which uses 32-bit drivers or 
run a 32-bit OS, loosing the advantages of having a 64-bit processor.

Or you decide you want to run Linux on your PowerPC mac. You plug the camera 
in and it won't work because the driver has been compiled for intel hardware.

Binary drivers are technically a bad way to go. It limits the kernel hackers' 
ability to debug the kernel - thus leading to a weaker OS. It limits the 
platforms on which hardware can be used - thus limiting the growth of linux. 
That is why they don't like them.

> Let's get Linux noticed and accepted ASAP. Only, then will the major
> hardware vendors start to take serious notice.
>

I agree, but I don't think that loads of binary drivers are going to 
particularly help in the mid-long term.

Martyn

-- 

Martyn Welch (martyn at welchs.me.uk)

PGP Key : http://www.welchs.me.uk/martyn/pgpkey/
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