[Nottingham] For info Fedora 17 out today

[Mike Martin]

On 29 May 2012 15:59, david at gbenet.com <david at gbenet.com> wrote:
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> On 29/05/12 14:52, Jason Irwin wrote:
>> On 29/05/12 14:41, david at gbenet.com wrote:
>>> "Modern" blimey sudo was old hat like sh - but unless you can edit the file command
>>> and append sudo to it then the average user not going to be able to edit files that
>>> root can.
>> Of course they can.  "sudo vi /foo/bar"  The whole idea to to restrict the potential
>> damage that a user may cause.
>>
>> If they are not in the "sudoers" group and have a genuine need to become root, they
>> need to speak to whomever installed the system.
>>
>> And if you need a root shell, "sudo su" is your friend.
>>
>>> Some folders - directories they will not be able to open.
>> "sudo nautilus"
>>
>> Again, if they can't see into the folder then either the admin was a plonker or they
>> have no need to.
>>
>> Maybe I spend too much time in the shallow end, wrapped in an Ubuntu bundle; but I
>> really don't see the lack of a direct root og-in as being much of a issue.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Nottingham mailing list
>> Nottingham at mailman.lug.org.uk https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/nottingham
>>
> All major distros at one time had root login as a default. Opensuse still has it as does
> Linux Mint. So why suddenly have these distros thought "Oh blimey let's get rid of root so
> that end users can not dig into their systems!"

Not in a major distro

>
> When Linux was first introduced - everybody was allowed to play. That principle has lasted
> a good 12 to 15 years. Some distros have no apt-get in the file repositories. What if they
> decided not to include encryption? And to make matters worse not include it in their
> downloads? I think you would be upset by that - especially since gpg 1.4.11 in all its
> flavours has been installed as a default for many many years.
>

Fedora has root login certainly up to 16, it just disables root logins
in GDM - different issue entirely

In fact it insists you setup a root password during install

> We are talking about principle here - who decides - what users can and can not do. What
> software they are allowed to install and so on. It is a slippery slope. I've already
> mentioned Seahorse - in the original package you can set the passphrase time - now that
> function has been edited out.
>

developers decision - free software the authors decide

> Linux was once free and open source - even Ubuntu has changed to being a closed shop. The
> Ubuntu you have now is very very much different from the Ubuntu of 5 years ago. If your
> mind does not grasp the changes to your distro - what then?
>
> I remember what Fedora was like 12 years ago. It is a different product now. Then it was
> like walking on thin or thick ice one was never quite sure when it would fail - but it
> would fail. Today Fedora is at least a bit more robust. That's all one can say about it.
>

Well I used RH 5.2 through 9 the fedora since core 1 , more robust but
no real difference except more focus on free software

> Ubuntu? Sharp and snappy open as it was in the past -  now - a heavily branded Linux and a
> closed shop. Try and install the real version of Seahorse. All your open source has been
> re-written for Ubuntu - at this goes for Fedora Opensuse and all the other major distros.
> Whereas in the past you installed real open source software - not a version that they who
> ever they are - think you will have.

cant speak for Ubuntu or SUSE but what is wrong with making sure the
software works together?

you can still install other stuff, either from source or from allied
repos if someone cares enough to make a package

>
> So for me Fedora-17 is just like Fedora-16 - with much fewer user options - much less
> choice in installable software - and all software re-written to fit in with Fedora. It
> will get to the point when only approved software can run on Fedora. Like Microsoft their
> software only runs on a Microsoft O/S without any backward compatibility. Fedora-17 is no


> different as are other Linux distros Ubuntu Opensuse.
>

see above

> As I said I'd not waste my time burning a DVD on what is junk - to me. Others may praise
> and give it every first class rating shout from the roof tops how wonderful it is. People
> go from one release to the next with apparent mindless oblivion to the changes that are
> made to their Linux distro. Newcomers have no idea what came before.
>

As long as its still free software does it matter?

Also RMS may not regard Fedora as totally free software but only
because of the firmware blobs, so I would say that that is way away
from your assertions

> But when you get to being over 60 have used Linux for 15 years or more - then you will
> have a little history. You will be aware of the changes. Perhaps in 30 years time people
> will be buying Linux with an end-user licence like Microsoft's. Who knows.
>


> David
>