[Scottish] Re: Scottish Digest, Vol 13, Issue 4
kenny scott
kenster at blueyonder.co.uk
Mon Dec 22 23:20:06 GMT 2003
tony I dont get your remarks?
You dont agree so you move away? what kind of attutude is that?
post your plans, no one has said they dont want to discuss this except
you.
On Mon, 2003-12-22 at 23:15, scottish-request at mailman.lug.org.uk wrote:
> Send Scottish mailing list submissions to
> scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> scottish-owner at mailman.lug.org.uk
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Scottish digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Forming New LUG (Tony Dyer)
> 2. Re: Scottish Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3 (kenny scott)
> 3. Re: Re: Scottish Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3 (Tony Dyer)
> 4. Re: IRC Debate logs (Tony Dyer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:54:31 +0000
> From: Tony Dyer <tony at dyer.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Scottish] Forming New LUG
> To: SLUG-list <scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk>
> Message-ID: <kKbCSUCnY35$Ew4m at dyer.demon.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
>
> I'll be posting the details over the festive season to, what I consider
> an appropriate medium, i.e. a website. I'll happily let the list know in
> due course. Nice to read your interest in the plans of the proposed UG.
> Tony Dyer
>
> In message <3FE7722F.5060504 at drochaid.org>, Calum Morrell
> <calum at drochaid.org> writes
> >Tony Dyer wrote:
> >
> >> I have become increasingly disaffected by the lack of progress and
> >>decisions the charting SLUG's future. As such I intend to form a
> >>distinct UG, in the Greater Glasgow Area, devoted to a broad range of
> >>Open Source as well as Linux issues and taking in user as well as
> >>technical views. If anyone is interested in joining me please contact
> >>me at UG at dyer.demon.co.uk. I wish those who continue with SLUG every
> >>success in the future. My Heart and Head are no longer with my co-creation.
> >> Tony Dyer
> >
> >What's the addy for the new IRC channel? I'd like to find out what your
> >plans are.
> >
>
> --
> Copyright 2003 by W. N. Dyer; all rights reserved.
> First class web hosting from 1&1 at
> http://oneandone.co.uk/xml/init?k_id=5075954
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 23:05:26 +0000
> From: kenny scott <kenster at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Subject: [Scottish] Re: Scottish Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3
> To: scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk
> Message-ID: <1072134326.9836.12.camel at debian>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> in reply to tonys remarks.
>
> tony, your being selfish. your basically saying I want it this way or
> I'm leaving.
> Thats not the way to behave. Try and resolve the situation, in another
> way instead of storming off. It seems pointless to do so.
>
> there must be away to reslive this without this, find a happy middle
> groupnd, compromise, is the key word here.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 2003-12-22 at 22:49, scottish-request at mailman.lug.org.uk wrote:
> > Send Scottish mailing list submissions to
> > scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > scottish-request at mailman.lug.org.uk
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > scottish-owner at mailman.lug.org.uk
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Scottish digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Forming New LUG (Tony Dyer)
> > 2. Re: Forming New LUG (Calum Morrell)
> > 3. IRC Debate logs (Kyle Gordon)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:31:41 +0000
> > From: Tony Dyer <tony at dyer.demon.co.uk>
> > Subject: [Scottish] Forming New LUG
> > To: scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk
> > Message-ID: <CqxL6iBND35$EwfP at dyer.demon.co.uk>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
> >
> > I have become increasingly disaffected by the lack of progress and
> > decisions the charting SLUG's future. As such I intend to form a
> > distinct UG, in the Greater Glasgow Area, devoted to a broad range of
> > Open Source as well as Linux issues and taking in user as well as
> > technical views. If anyone is interested in joining me please contact me
> > at UG at dyer.demon.co.uk. I wish those who continue with SLUG every
> > success in the future. My Heart and Head are no longer with my
> > co-creation.
> > Tony Dyer
> > --
> > Copyright 2003 by W. N. Dyer; all rights reserved.
> > First class web hosting from 1&1 at
> > http://oneandone.co.uk/xml/init?k_id=5075954
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:37:35 +0000
> > From: Calum Morrell <calum at drochaid.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Scottish] Forming New LUG
> > To: SLUG-list <scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk>
> > Message-ID: <3FE7722F.5060504 at drochaid.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> >
> > Tony Dyer wrote:
> >
> > > I have become increasingly disaffected by the lack of progress and
> > > decisions the charting SLUG's future. As such I intend to form a
> > > distinct UG, in the Greater Glasgow Area, devoted to a broad range of
> > > Open Source as well as Linux issues and taking in user as well as
> > > technical views. If anyone is interested in joining me please contact me
> > > at UG at dyer.demon.co.uk. I wish those who continue with SLUG every
> > > success in the future. My Heart and Head are no longer with my co-creation.
> > > Tony Dyer
> >
> > What's the addy for the new IRC channel? I'd like to find out what your
> > plans are.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 23:14:34 +0000
> From: "Tony Dyer" <tony at dyer.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Scottish] Re: Scottish Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3
> To: "SLUG-list" <scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk>
> Message-ID: <20031222231434.733810004.tony at dyer.demon.co.uk>
>
> I don't see what you are getting at. You want to move SLUG one way, I don't agree so I do my own thing. Is that not what freedom is all about?
> Tony Dyer
>
> > ------------Original Message------------
> > From: kenny scott <kenster at blueyonder.co.uk>
> > To: scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk
> > Date: Mon, Dec-22-2003 11:03 PM
> > Subject: [Scottish] Re: Scottish Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3
> >
> > in reply to tonys remarks.
> >
> > tony, your being selfish. your basically saying I want it this way or
> > I'm leaving.
> > Thats not the way to behave. Try and resolve the situation, in another
> > way instead of storming off. It seems pointless to do so.
> >
> > there must be away to reslive this without this, find a happy middle
> > groupnd, compromise, is the key word here.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 2003-12-22 at 22:49, scottish-request at mailman.lug.org.uk wrote:
> > > Send Scottish mailing list submissions to
> > > scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > scottish-request at mailman.lug.org.uk
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > scottish-owner at mailman.lug.org.uk
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Scottish digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Forming New LUG (Tony Dyer)
> > > 2. Re: Forming New LUG (Calum Morrell)
> > > 3. IRC Debate logs (Kyle Gordon)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:31:41 +0000
> > > From: Tony Dyer <tony at dyer.demon.co.uk>
> > > Subject: [Scottish] Forming New LUG
> > > To: scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk
> > > Message-ID: <CqxL6iBND35$EwfP at dyer.demon.co.uk>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
> > >
> > > I have become increasingly disaffected by the lack of progress and
> > > decisions the charting SLUG's future. As such I intend to form a
> > > distinct UG, in the Greater Glasgow Area, devoted to a broad range of
> > > Open Source as well as Linux issues and taking in user as well as
> > > technical views. If anyone is interested in joining me please contact me
> > > at UG at dyer.demon.co.uk. I wish those who continue with SLUG every
> > > success in the future. My Heart and Head are no longer with my
> > > co-creation.
> > > Tony Dyer
> > > --
> > > Copyright 2003 by W. N. Dyer; all rights reserved.
> > > First class web hosting from 1&1 at
> > > http://oneandone.co.uk/xml/init?k_id=5075954
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:37:35 +0000
> > > From: Calum Morrell <calum at drochaid.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [Scottish] Forming New LUG
> > > To: SLUG-list <scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk>
> > > Message-ID: <3FE7722F.5060504 at drochaid.org>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> > >
> > > Tony Dyer wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have become increasingly disaffected by the lack of progress and
> > > > decisions the charting SLUG's future. As such I intend to form a
> > > > distinct UG, in the Greater Glasgow Area, devoted to a broad range of
> > > > Open Source as well as Linux issues and taking in user as well as
> > > > technical views. If anyone is interested in joining me please contact me
> > > > at UG at dyer.demon.co.uk. I wish those who continue with SLUG every
> > > > success in the future. My Heart and Head are no longer with my co-creation.
> > > > Tony Dyer
> > >
> > > What's the addy for the new IRC channel? I'd like to find out what your
> > > plans are.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Scottish mailing list
> > Scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk
> > http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:57:06 +0000
> From: Tony Dyer <tony at dyer.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Scottish] IRC Debate logs
> To: SLUG-list <scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk>
> Message-ID: <saSAG6CCb35$EwYa at dyer.demon.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
>
> Nice to see how you act when someone challenges your views.
> So your colours are showed true here.
> Tony Dyer.
>
> In message <3FE77483.61D725E5 at Sun.COM>, Kyle Gordon
> <Kyle.Gordon at Sun.COM> writes
> >For those that care, we have recently had a heated debate on #scotlug
> >about the future and the direction of SLUG as a group. I am posting the
> >logs for completeness and so that those who are not on IRC or have no
> >interest in it can see what would otherwise be called 'behind the scenes'
> >
> >It's all open to your interpratation. The view presented here are the
> >views of each individual person, which may or may not be a shared view
> >of the situation
> >
> >- windy [~NickLaGom at dyer.demon.co.uk] has joined #scotlug
> >21:07 < caagaard> bagpuss_thecat, allways for you :-)
> >21:07 < bagpuss_thecat> evening windy
> >21:08 < windy> evening all
> >21:10 < bagpuss_thecat> well, it _was_ busy in here until about 4 minutes ago
> >21:10 < tam> interesting post to the list that was
> >21:10 < tam> bagpuss_thecat: well am trying to work...but more keep on
> >coming in and i get bored as i see the queue getting more red
> >21:11 < bagpuss_thecat> an archive of talks would be nice, and
> >advertising of the mailing list would also be helpful
> >21:12 < bagpuss_thecat> I would offer to organise that stuff, but don't
> >have the time. And the last time I attempted to organise anything for
> >scotlug I got slated for 'taking control' and not 'asking my peers' etc
> >21:12 < windy> My ears must have been burning
> >21:12 < bagpuss_thecat> tam: work... :-/
> >21:13 < bagpuss_thecat> windy: indeed
> >21:13 < windy> so whats the gen?
> >21:13 < bagpuss_thecat> tam: I have damned american everywhere wanting
> >answers for a 3 hour outage earlier on today
> >21:13 < bagpuss_thecat> a/american/americans/
> >21:13 < bagpuss_thecat> windy: 'the gen'?
> >21:13 < tam> bagpuss_thecat: i've got 6 radiance cases in my queue
> >21:14 < windy> The thoughts?
> >21:14 < tam> i've done around 15 since i came in
> >21:14 < bagpuss_thecat> I don't have a terribly good grasp of
> >abbreviations or acronyms :-p
> >21:14 < bagpuss_thecat> aah
> >21:14 < tam> make that 7 cases now
> >21:15 < windy> We need to become something more than we have been of
> >late or we should stop kidding ourselves on.
> >21:16 < bagpuss_thecat> well, I speak for myself when I say that a
> >comittee would be nice and would bring some order to the group.
> >Unfortunately some believe that a committe is just the beginning of a
> >big formal group, etc, etc, and is moving scotlug away from it's roots
> >21:16 < bagpuss_thecat> s/it's/its/
> >21:16 < bagpuss_thecat> its roots being a loosely joined group of
> >people with a common interest
> >21:16 < windy> If we want a drinking club or a meal club then form one of those
> >21:17 < windy> with a common interest in Linux and open source not
> >drinking or eating
> >21:17 < windy> About growing as a group
> >21:17 < bagpuss_thecat> yes
> >21:18 < sjmurdoch> edward: IBM R31 - so yes, it would seem like you are correct
> >21:18 < bagpuss_thecat> I'm at a bit of a loss really
> >21:18 < windy> Some of us are in it for the long term not just passing
> >through or being cool or fashionable
> >21:18 < bagpuss_thecat> everyone seems keen to talk and discuss, but
> >noone wants to take on the responsibility
> >21:19 < bagpuss_thecat> tbh, I don't know of many who have just passed through
> >21:19 < tam> what is cool or fashionable about it?
> >21:19 < tam> windy: ^
> >21:20 < windy> I've done it for four year and in spite of my premature
> >demise as written by Mr Ben I now have the time and inclination to make
> >a comeback
> >21:20 * Neil_ moves his idling stool closer
> >21:20 < kenny> so how would you see the committee being formed based on
> >you needed a quarim of 5 people to hav ea meeting? what roles would you
> >need?
> >21:21 < tam> kenny: a great speaker like you for a start
> >21:21 < kenny> im just good with the ladies tam
> >21:21 < tam> could give a talk oon how you got your soundcard working
> >21:21 < bagpuss_thecat> kenny: with some commas, it actually makes sense :-p
> >21:21 < tam> kenny: well we know that is just an exageration as you did
> >give her 20 quid
> >21:21 < kenny> I did not give her 20 quid
> >21:21 < bagpuss_thecat> ladies, later
> >21:22 < kenny> hehe
> >21:22 < tam> kenny: IOU ?
> >21:22 < radman> anyone used a sharp zaurus?
> >21:22 < radman> #
> >21:22 < radman> woopsey
> >21:22 < Neil_> first point of order, bigkevmcd recommned it might be a
> >good idea to put an 'offical' scotlug presence into this:
> >http://www.icm-computer.co.uk/events/events_current.asp
> >21:22 < windy> That is a matter of the individuals perception of a
> >thing, it's when it comes to giving time and resources you seperate the
> >commited from the fop
> >21:22 < kenny> but a committee needs a structure, the roles need to
> >have a palce within the comittee, I mean is a treasurer needed? waht
> >would the treasurers trole be? what is the need, its needs to be put
> >down in a constitution
> >21:22 < Neil_> but as we can't really define an offical scotlug
> >presence at the moment we're a bit fscked, so here is a goal.
> >21:23 < kenny> what was the original goal of scotlug when it was launched?
> >21:23 < bagpuss_thecat> Neil_: looks good, and I like the idea
> >21:24 < windy> Why dont you announce this as the topic of January's
> >debate and open it to all who can attend rather than stick it up here?
> >21:24 < bagpuss_thecat> put it to the list, and we'll get about 3
> >replies. If we make a move and try to go ahead with it, we'll get a
> >different 3 people saying 'Who are you to represent us?'. And then
> >we're stuck in a deadlock
> >21:25 < bagpuss_thecat> windy: sounds good
> >21:25 < bagpuss_thecat> kenny: signed up to the list?
> >21:25 < kenny> i dont think it would be like that bagpuss_thecat. but
> >for the suggestion of a comittee is perhaps a good idea. but the roles
> >need to be defined and a future goal and objective needs to be set then
> >discussed to see if its a viable idea.
> >21:25 < kenny> yeah bagpuss_thecat
> >21:26 < windy> I think I form GLUG!
> >21:26 < windy> I think Colin might join me!
> >21:26 < bagpuss_thecat> lol
> >21:27 < bagpuss_thecat> there's been a change in the matrix...
> >21:27 < windy> Might not be as funny as you think
> >21:27 < seaLne> glug == gnu linux users group?
> >21:27 < windy> Genuine
> >21:27 < drochaid> glug == someone drinking noisily
> >21:27 < kenny> why do taht windy. you have a hard core folliwing here.
> >of very helpful people.
> >21:28 < bagpuss_thecat> g = glasgow
> >21:28 < drochaid> maybe to people who know, not anyone else looing at it
> >21:28 < seaLne> GlaLUG if anything
> >21:28 < kenny> well commuication is the key there drochaid
> >21:29 < kenny> both ways.
> >21:29 < drochaid> kenny, communication is only part of it
> >21:29 < seaLne> there are already enough GLUGs and SLUGs to confuse people
> >21:29 < kenny> speaking as a n00b! coming here and talking to everyone
> >is great. but the meets are great for going round in circles
> >introducing yourself getting to know people and making that level of
> >communication better so that you can get more help.
> >21:30 < drochaid> yes, I have enough slugs in my garden already
> >21:30 < windy> who keep pissing about and I don't what else beause too
> >much is said in this formum and not in an inclusive way
> >21:30 < kenny> in what way? windy.
> >21:31 < windy> How many people participate in SLUG IRC channel
> >21:31 < seaLne> /names
> >21:31 < windy> How many peop;e are on the mailing list
> >21:31 < kenny> I dunno well ther are 35 people here just now.
> >21:31 < seaLne> and more at different times
> >21:31 < kenny> dunno.
> >21:31 < bagpuss_thecat> how many people are active on the mailing list?
> >21:31 < windy> How many people have joined the forums?
> >21:32 < drochaid> forums?
> >21:32 < drochaid> mailing list?
> >21:32 < windy> What is the hitrate on the website
> >21:32 < Neil_> windy: what is your point?
> >21:32 < kenny> so you think a committee will get those numbers up then?
> >21:32 < windy> Has anyone renewed any of the international listings of SLUG?
> >21:32 < Neil_> were we supposed to?
> >21:33 < bagpuss_thecat> did we know about it?
> >21:33 < Neil_> did the original maintainer delegate?
> >21:33 < bagpuss_thecat> was it documented?
> >21:33 < windy> That's my point
> >21:33 < drochaid> does windy have a point?
> >21:33 < windy> Who are you or I speeking for?
> >21:33 < kenny> thats not a committee you need then. you jsut need
> >people who are going to do those jobs. and get it documented somehwere.
> >21:33 < seaLne> www.scotlug.org.uk/statistics/
> >21:34 < windy> We need to establish what and who are members of SLUG
> >attendees of meetings, maillist, IRc or WHAT?
> >21:35 < Neil_> bagpuss_thecat: heh, glasgownet.com is the top requester :)
> >21:35 < kenny> Well for meetings tahts impossible. Work,. family
> >commitments it all depends on a monthly basis. Mail list, you have to
> >take that into consideration. as for IRC why use a mailing list the
> >same when people can chat live?
> >21:35 < seaLne> define "members"?
> >21:35 < windy> The membership, all of it must be involved in the way forward
> >21:35 < bagpuss_thecat> Neil_: nah, that'll just be the RSS feed
> >21:35 < Neil_> ah
> >21:35 < windy> We need to define that
> >21:36 < kenny> do ou want people to spend money of a fee to join
> >sctlug? if so who will that money be used? how have things been funded
> >so far? is ther any need for a fund?
> >21:36 < windy> I suggest the the mailing list be the basis of our membership
> >21:36 < kenny> why?
> >21:37 < seaLne> then you would have to see who is active
> >21:37 < windy> That all discussion on this be channeled through that medium
> >21:37 < kenny> why, we keep logs dont we? that can used as a refrence
> >21:38 < windy> It's the oldest and as far as I am aware the biggest of
> >the media we use and is available in asynchronous mode
> >21:38 < Neil_> hmm
> >21:38 < bagpuss_thecat> errr
> >21:38 < bagpuss_thecat> ok
> >21:39 * bagpuss_thecat has better things to be doing just now
> >21:39 < kenny> well, I seen the mailing list, and ther wasnt much on
> >it. as for the stuff that goes on in here!
> >21:39 < kenny> bigger mediam, bigger scope for help.
> >21:39 < windy> People can read all that is written and can choose to
> >participate or not irrespective of realtime constraints
> >21:39 < kenny> I might be able to chaneel my problem through a mailing
> >list, but why do taht when I can just come here
> >21:39 < tam> windy: irc is the way now. mailing lists is good to say
> >stuff on a wide range and on an important note
> >21:40 < Neil_> or if you can't get help by literally asking your mates
> >21:40 < kenny> I had a problem with my soundcard, it took me 4 days to
> >get it fixed. now thats me being a n00b, but if I didnt come here to
> >get suggestions idea it could have taken longer, then I might have just
> >got brassed off and went to windows again
> >21:40 < seaLne> a days worth of conversations on irc would take years
> >on a mailing list
> >21:40 < tam> yup. irc has much better support IMO
> >21:40 < Neil_> it would be good to have solutions to problems and stuff
> >happening with scotlug members documented on the mailing list, but I
> >don't see it happening
> >21:40 < drochaid> could someone point me in the direction of the
> >mailing lists? I can't see them on scotlug.org.uk
> >21:40 < windy> Because it includes ALL membership . Instant technical
> >problems by all means come here but the future of SLUG should involve
> >everyone
> >21:41 < tam> !find scotlug mailing list
> >21:41 < bagpuss_thecat> IRC is just another form of Instant Messaging,
> >and we all know how popular that has become recently. There's no
> >stopping that popularity. I agree, otoh, with keeping important stuff
> >to the mailing list, where it is publically archived and accessible
> >21:41 < slugfind> scotlug mailing list:
> >http://www.mail-archive.com/scottish@mailman.lug.org.uk/msg00864.html
> >21:41 < Neil_> windy: you see to be implying we're not involving people
> >21:41 < Neil_> nobody is stopping anybody from coming here
> >21:41 < windy> Time and other commitments do
> >21:41 * tam has contributed people getting on irc
> >21:41 < Neil_> and I'm sure we've posted this to the mailing list at least once
> >21:42 < kenny> all the chosable medium are on the website. which can be
> >accesses by anyone looking for a linux help if done right. its the
> >peoples choice what way they want to mediate.
> >21:42 < Neil_> windy: what can we do to help that? most people here
> >have just as serious time and commitments - stable server, irssi and
> >screen. sorted.
> >21:42 < kenny> right well, the same time and commitment stop people
> >reading through a digest and then replying windy.
> >21:43 < windy> Then it's a lost cause.
> >21:43 * tam refreshes squirrelmail
> >21:43 < kenny> its not a liost cause. Why instead of wanting the
> >mailing list to be the main source work round the issue?
> >21:43 < Neil_> windy: maybe you could start glug and ban all non-trival irc
> >21:44 < kenny> I mean, turned the favoured medium into the tool taht is
> >most important and start from there, isntead of writting it off?
> >21:44 * Neil_ notices windy has came to irc to get an immediate
> >response to something that appeared to be taking too long via the
> >mailing list
> >21:44 < tam> lol
> >21:44 < bagpuss_thecat> Neil_: or maybe cos no-one else joined in on
> >the mailing list
> >21:45 < windy> You miss the point. I'm not against IRC or any other
> >medium, but the message and the medium are intertwined.
> >21:45 < kenny> theyre not intertwined.
> >21:45 < bagpuss_thecat> windy: am I right in thinking that public
> >archival of _any_ communications medium is a 'good thing'
> >21:45 < Neil_> windy: I see your point
> >21:45 < Neil_> windy: I just don't see a way forward
> >21:45 < bagpuss_thecat> in that it would be a good thing for scotlug
> >communications
> >21:45 < windy> I came because I knew that chat would happen here that
> >no one would put into an email!!1
> >21:46 < bagpuss_thecat> true
> >21:46 < kenny> exactly. which must tell you something! people spend
> >more time on here.
> >21:46 < bagpuss_thecat> or, are just more vocal in here
> >21:46 < windy> Some people do
> >21:46 < kenny> exactly! either way bagpuss_thecat thats a good thing
> >21:47 < windy> Some people have other things in their lifes too.
> >21:47 < bagpuss_thecat> don't we all
> >21:47 < kenny> now I can understand that maybe some people dont like to
> >come here, but there must be a happy medium then. because its fair
> >asking the majoiryt to hinder to the minority
> >21:47 < windy> Then why cut them out of the loop
> >21:47 < kenny> opps! its not fair!! sorry missed that word out there
> >21:47 < kenny> were not cutting anyone out the lopp
> >21:48 < kenny> thats wahat Im saying windy,. find a happy medium.
> >21:48 < kenny> Record the chats on the webiste on a daily basis archive
> >them later, people wont be excluded that way,.
> >21:48 < windy> But only if it's yours
> >21:48 < kenny> waht do you mean only if its mine?
> >21:49 < windy> It's the impression that ideas are fixed here and the
> >scope for real debate is minimal
> >21:50 < kenny> not as far as I can see. I can see your point but your
> >being a bit stubborn you basically saying that everyone has to use the
> >mailing list
> >21:50 < bagpuss_thecat> windy: only cos no other sod on the mailing
> >list seems to care or respond
> >21:50 < windy> We must resolve the future of SLUG with all possible speed
> >21:50 < Neil_> and here is where the momentum is
> >21:50 < kenny> well waht do you want as the future windy? Ive asked
> >that twice and I still dont know!
> >21:50 < bagpuss_thecat> where do you want to go today?
> >21:51 * bagpuss_thecat gets his coat
> >21:51 < Neil_> :-)
> >21:51 < drochaid> the toilet
> >21:51 * bagpuss_thecat > core dumping
> >21:51 < drochaid> :)
> >21:51 < drochaid> don't forget to flush your permissions
> >21:51 < windy> I don't think it has a future I am sad to say
> >21:51 < kenny> but you have an idea of waht you want that to be - waht is it?
> >21:52 -!- Linda [bigbadwool at 81-86-241-167.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #scotlug
> >21:52 < Neil_> evenin' Linda
> >21:52 < windy> I want there to be a formal meeting of talks and
> >discussions 11 months of the year
> >21:52 < kenny> voice that idea. and then maybe it might give people a
> >better idea of what you are trying to achieve then people can give
> >ideas on what to do
> >21:53 < Neil_> windy: so do we
> >21:53 < bagpuss_thecat> windy: ok, let's do it
> >21:53 < Linda> I think we should have a vote on it :)
> >21:53 < kenny> two heads are better than one,. but we all need to know
> >waht you looking for
> >21:53 < windy> But I don't like IRC
> >21:53 < Neil_> yes, we already have a priliminary agenda from mrben
> >21:53 < Neil_> windy: lol
> >21:53 < Neil_> windy: start liking it
> >21:53 < kenny> a vote on waht tho? a comittee? what are they gonna do.
> >itsstill nto established what the aim is
> >21:53 < bagpuss_thecat> mrben has already proposed a plan (on the list
> >nonetheless), let's go with it
> >21:54 < windy> I think it's purile
> >21:54 < Neil_> windy: mrben's plan?
> >21:54 < Neil_> oh, irc :)
> >21:54 < Linda> a list... yeah! let's have a list
> >21:54 < windy> No IRC
> >21:54 < Neil_> well, I'm not arguing with you
> >21:54 < Neil_> but we're using it
> >21:54 < Neil_> (at the moment)
> >21:54 < bagpuss_thecat> windy: IRC isn't purile, the people are
> >21:54 < kenny> being a chairman of a brass band for two years, I think
> >I can safely see you need a gola to attain too. Im still not getting
> >what that goal is? is it not about getting linus users helping each
> >other to move forward? because if it is I see that happening already
> >21:54 * tam would prefer irc than a list
> >21:54 < windy> We use lots of purile thinks including txting
> >21:55 < seaLne> maybe you do I wouldn't generalise
> >21:55 < kenny> windy - the only point to your debate so far is you dont
> >like IRC.
> >21:55 < Neil_> that is true
> >21:56 < Neil_> and that you'd like discussions and talks
> >21:56 < Linda> I like IRC :) and u kenny... u sexy boy! :P
> >21:56 < Neil_> which is what mrben said
> >21:56 < windy> It is the most powerful thinking technique that people us
> >21:56 < Neil_> kenny: do you have stickers in phoneboxes or something?
> >21:56 < kenny> I'll be the first one to hold my hand up and say yeah a
> >committee is a freat idea. but I need to know why it is first so I can
> >say yah or nay on it
> >21:57 < bagpuss_thecat> well, if that's the case then get thse damned
> >people mentioned on mrbens planned to actually reply to the plan and
> >say 'yes, I'll do it'
> >21:57 < bagpuss_thecat> so far all we have is a plan
> >21:57 < kenny> i dunno neil_ I dunno even know who linda is!
> >21:57 < bagpuss_thecat> why don't we get some bloody confirmations
> >21:57 < Linda> remember me from the Cathouse Kenny! ;)
> >21:57 < Linda> big boy :D
> >21:57 < bagpuss_thecat> all chat, no fscking responses
> >21:58 < kenny> nope!
> >21:58 < Linda> and u tam... u big beast u! :P
> >21:58 -!- mode/#scotlug [+o bagpuss_thecat] by ChanServ
> >21:58 -!- Linda was kicked from #scotlug by bagpuss_thecat [wrong
> >place, wrong time]
> >21:58 -!- mode/#scotlug [-o bagpuss_thecat] by ChanServ
> >21:58 < Neil_> hey, maybe I was next
> >21:58 < seaLne> woolie?
> >21:58 < kenny> lol
> >21:59 < Neil_> possibly, got the 'wool' keyword
> >21:59 < drochaid> Neil_, still want to be next?
> >21:59 < seaLne> yeah, i was waiting to see how he behaved
> >21:59 < Neil_> i was just gonna ask, who the hell told a girl we'd be
> >in #scotlug :)
> >21:59 < kenny> not me!
> >21:59 < Neil_> (cause we were actually in the cathouse this weekend)
> >21:59 < Neil_> :P
> >21:59 < bagpuss_thecat> back on track all
> >21:59 * kenny is thinking somone is playinga joke
> >21:59 -!- Irssi: #scotlug: Total of 35 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0
> >voices, 35 normal]
> >21:59 < seaLne> kenny: not one of your chatup lines then?
> >22:00 < kenny> nope! seaLne
> >22:00 < Neil_> January - Bring your favourite Linux book/gadget; time
> >to show off all those cool things you got for Christmas, and inspire
> >some geek envy.
> >22:00 < Neil_> thats what mrben said
> >22:00 < windy> We need to get as much of the membership together face
> >to face without alcohol and spend some time discussing the whole matter
> >22:00 < Neil_> add to that 'we'll talk about going to this linux
> >enterprise thing' and thats the night sorted
> >22:00 < Neil_> and we'll hopefully fit beer in
> >22:00 * tam wonders who linda is
> >22:01 < kenny> right but a comittee is not there to hold meets. its
> >there to make decisions for the beneifit of the group. a controling
> >force that make all th emajor decisions
> >22:01 * kenny wonders too
> >22:01 * Neil_ is deliberately turning a blind eye to this comittee
> >nonsense for the time being
> >22:01 < tam> ah, woolie
> >22:01 < seaLne> probably it was woolie
> >22:01 < tam> yeah
> >22:01 * Neil_ is taking linus' - let it happen approach
> >22:01 < tam> but how would he have known
> >22:01 < bagpuss_thecat> well, 'Linda' is still logged in to freenode,
> >ask her/him
> >22:01 -!- pinkj [justin at 82-41-26-178.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk]
> >has joined #scotlug
> >22:02 < pinkj> yo
> >22:02 < seaLne> boo
> >22:02 < bagpuss_thecat> windy: can we agree on Januarys topic then?
> >22:02 < pinkj> indeed - up for a bit of problem solving (read: suggestions)?
> >22:02 < Neil_> pinkj: evenin' - fire away
> >22:02 < bagpuss_thecat> geek toys, and a discussion on 'the future'
> >22:02 < pinkj> yo
> >22:02 < Neil_> bagpuss_thecat: and saturday
> >22:03 < kenny> SealNe - my chat up lines normally consist me me
> >standing in a line waiting to go somewhere and I pull.
> >22:03 < bagpuss_thecat> saturday?
> >22:03 < Neil_> bagpuss_thecat: that linux enterprise thing is the
> >saturday directly following scotlug
> >22:03 < pinkj> ok, figured out why my sparc classic isn't 'working' -
> >it is, but it doesn't like the switch it's connected to... works fine
> >on the other switch, and crossed to my laptop. I believe the problem
> >is likely to be because the switch is autonegotiating.
> >22:03 < bagpuss_thecat> if required, yes
> >22:03 < bagpuss_thecat> pinkj: mii-tool
> >22:04 < kenny> im gonna put a post on the mailing list then. because
> >none of my questions have still been answered.
> >22:05 < seaLne> pinkj: the 3com switch? if so couldn't you change it to
> >not autonegotiate?
> >22:05 < pinkj> seaLne: nope, just a small 8 port one in Glasgow
> >22:05 < seaLne> ah
> >22:05 < bagpuss_thecat> Neil_: saturday event - just as visitors I assume?
> >22:06 < Neil_> bagpuss_thecat: I'm not sure, well we won't have real
> >time to do anything else if we wait till thursday to discuss it, but if
> >visitors then active "hey we're scotlug" visitors
> >22:06 < pinkj> I should of said autosensing btw, although I think you
> >all know what I mean
> >22:07 * Neil_ is really thirsty and my choices are beer and water
> >22:07 < seaLne> same diff :)
> >22:07 < Neil_> ordinarily that wouldn't be a contest, but theres only one beer
> >22:07 < seaLne> watery beer?
> >22:07 < Neil_> hehe
> >22:07 < pinkj> yes, water it down
> >22:07 < kenny> Neil_ you live 5 minutes away from the shop
> >22:07 < pinkj> it'll last longer
> >22:07 < Neil_> kenny: i just feel like drinking the second the off
> >licenses shut
> >22:07 -!- DjMagra [~DjMagra at stella.daraghmcg.org] has joined #scotlug
> >22:07 < kenny> typical
> >22:08 < bagpuss_thecat> Neil_: I'll post to the list
> >22:08 < Neil_> bagpuss_thecat: ooh, your are brave
> >22:08 < Neil_> s/your/you/
> >22:08 < pinkj> seaLne: not quite: autonegotiating is where your switch
> >/ hub automagically figures out whether or not you're talking at 10 or
> >100 Mbps. Autosensing is where it figures out if you're using a cross
> >over cable or not and adjusts its port accordingly
> >22:08 < kenny> another thing - what info should be put on the list?
> >22:08 < Neil_> kenny: what do you mean?
> >22:09 < kenny> well. Its been suggested that the mailing list be used
> >as the main medium. what have we to put on the list? problems? chats?
> >what we did at the weekend? what software we have just installed?
> >22:09 -!- TMW2N [~tmw2n at 82-40-80-148.cable.ubr01.cast.blueyonder.co.uk]
> >has joined #scotlug
> >22:09 < TMW2N> lo all
> >22:09 < kenny> hi TMW2N
> >22:09 * seaLne swears lots at his mailserver
> >22:11 < seaLne> it is upset about a filserver being rebooted earlier
> >and can't see the nfs mounts and it is half rebooted but is probably
> >stuck trying to unmount the nfs shares :(
> >22:11 < kenny> right. I jsut need to work out how to send a mail to the
> >mailing list. hmm......
> >22:11 < bagpuss_thecat> kenny: if you're signed up, just send a mail to
> >22:11 < bagpuss_thecat> scottish at mailman.lug.org.uk
> >22:11 < bagpuss_thecat> damned hidden tabes
> >22:12 < pinkj> my options are kinda limited to crossing it into a
> >'host' machine that bridges (I don't want to divide my IP subnet for
> >just 1 machine) or alternatively, getting a long cable to attach it to
> >the hub, and swapping whatever came out the hub into the switch
> >22:12 < bagpuss_thecat> -e
> >22:12 < seaLne> long cable sounds easiest
> >22:12 < pinkj> ok will do that. thanks
> >22:12 < bagpuss_thecat> pinkj: is the link light coming on?
> >22:13 -!- pinkj [justin at 82-41-26-178.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk]
> >has left #scotlug []
> >22:13 < bagpuss_thecat> muppet
> >22:13 * TMW2N has total deja vu
> >22:13 < TMW2N> i'm sure i have read this conversation before, a few months ago
> >22:13 < seaLne> its crazy the pile of machines he has next to his bed
> >in glasgow
> >22:15 < seaLne> Neil_: i might have an indy spare would you be
> >interested if i did?
> >22:16 < Neil_> gn
> >22:16 < Neil_> oops
> >22:16 < Neil_> seaLne: thanks seaLne but my nice big sun monitor died a
> >while back - thanks though
> >22:16 < bagpuss_thecat> ooh, indy
> >22:16 * Neil_ is trying to cut back (a little)
> >22:16 < bagpuss_thecat> as in, Indigo?
> >22:17 < seaLne> as in sgi indy
> >22:17 < seaLne> indigo is a different model
> >22:17 < bagpuss_thecat> what's it like compared to an SS2, performance wise?
> >22:17 < seaLne> faster
> >22:17 < bagpuss_thecat> much?
> >22:17 < bagpuss_thecat> or just a teeensy weeensy bit? :-p
> >22:18 * thinker gets home
> >22:18 < seaLne> i think 133 - 150MHz (x non x86 arch multiplier)
> >22:18 < bagpuss_thecat> oooh
> >22:19 < bagpuss_thecat> still on offer to a good home?
> >22:19 < seaLne> not sure what all i'm getting
> >22:19 < seaLne> yeah
> >22:19 < bagpuss_thecat> :-p
> >22:20 < windy> I no longer care. SLUG is yours. I go elsewhere.
> >22:20 -!- windy [~NickLaGom at dyer.demon.co.uk] has quit ["ChatZilla
> >0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/20030624]"]
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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