[Sussex] A rant on using different distributions

[Steve Dobson]

Matthew

On Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 11:23:08AM -0400, Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote:
> I've recently installed a variant of Debian (Damn Small Linux) onto my 
> laptop. I run Gentoo on my Server.  Out of the two, I have always heard 
> it said that Debian (and debian-based distros) had a better package 
> management system than Portage, and that they were more straight forward 
> to install and use.

I can't speak about comparing the two as I have never installed Gentoo,
but I have install Debian on a few machine, and I have found it no problem
at all.

> I've now re-installed DSL (Damn Small Linux) three times onto this 
> laptop because I couldn't get it to install the packages I wanted it to. 

I've installed this laptop only twice.  Once when I first got it, and 
once after the disk died and I bought a bigger disk for it.  Both those
disks where upgraded lots of times, and I have added and removed packages
almost as much as I add and remove clothing from my own body.

> Now that I've got the distro up and running, I've been playing with 
> apt.  so far my impression is this - it's crap.

You sound like someone who is frustrated at your lack of understanding
and are blaming your tools rather than seeking to educate yourself.

I've just installed JBoss on my laptop.  It's the first time I've got
it working, although I have tried three or four times before.  Why was
it different this time - simple, I found the document that lead me
through the process correctly.  Is certainly isn't that JBoss was
crap and now is okay - I'm sure v3.x is just a good as v4.x, the big
change is me.

> Here's a little example of how to install in Gentoo vs how to install in 
> Debian:
> 
> Gentoo:
> 
> emerge -s packageName
> emerge packageName
> 
> Debian:
> 
> apt-cache search packageName
> apt-get install packageName
> 
> Why do I need to use two seperate tools to find and then install a 
> package???

Because the two commands are trying to do two different things, and
in good *nix tradition have been separated.  apt-cache is there to
manipulate and integrate the APT cache, apt-get is there to put data
from remote locations and install them.  These are two very different
tasks, although they do work on the same data set.

Either emerge is not trying to do as much as the apt system or it is
doing more than one job and is heading to bloatware country.  I
suspect that it is the former, and I am not putting emerge down here,
just to say that one is not the same as the other.
 
> Error reporting in Gentoo is great.

So I have heard, and I congratulate Gentoo for that.

> It gives proper error messages like 
> "This package will not be installed because it is blocked by package x. 
> Please remove that package before installing this one."
> 
> Debian simply said "This package depends on package x, but it's not 
> going to be installed".  WHY THE F**K NOT? TELL ME WHAT I NEED TO DO TO 
> STOP THIS HAPPENING!  DON'T JUST TELL ME YOU CAN'T DO IT! [1]

Because it can't!  It does report why the package can't be installed.  They
only two I've see are:
  1). Because the package isn't in the database, or
  2). Version problems.

I would guess that your /etc/apt/sources.list you may have mixed your
releases or you may be missing an achieve.  On stable pure Debian 
setups I've never seen this.  I have seen it when I add third party
achieves into my apt config to try and get around downloading and
compiling the software myself.

> My advice from now on to anyone that cares to take it is this:
> 
> If you want a small footprint that is quick to install but completely 
> non-sensical to maintain, use debian.  If you're willing to wait for the 
> added stability and tuning that compiling your own software through an 
> easy-to-use, understandable command-line interface ( and let's face it, 
> with the speed of machines that are out at the moment, it's not a huge 
> difference!) use Gentoo.

I would warn everyone from taking advice form someone who doesn't know
what they are doing, and Matt clearly doesn't when it comes to Debian.
I can install just about any system (500Mhz and up) from scratch in 
half an hour.  I'm sure Matt couldn't build a Gentoo system in that time.
The last time I compiled X on this system (1.2 GHz) it took an hour by
itself.

And processor speed is not the big issue here.  I am finding that my 
1.2 GHz Intel based laptop is not as fast as my 1.0 Ghz Via system 
because laptop disks are so much slower than normal ones.  And the
one place I really notice it is in compiling.

As to the "stability" of Gentoo that can't be any better than Debian or
any other distro because it all comes from THE SAME SOURCE!

> /me stands down from soap box, dons flame-proof jacket and fdisks every 
> debian mirror he can find...

You leave my Debian mirror alone or I'll come over to your place and 
bit you knee caps off!!!  :-)

Okay, you've had your rant and I've had mine.  But I'm wondering why you
installed DSL on a laptop.  Why not Debian itself?

Steve
-- 
BOFH excuse #102:

Power company testing new voltage spike (creation) equipment
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