[Wolves] activists linux...

[Steve]

12/09/2003 11:58:15, fizzy <fizzyorguk@yahoo.com> wrote:

>a) You can't reform capitalism, it's a flawed concept.

i agree.But in some ways i don't actually think capitalism has even happened yet. In 
terms of the free market anyway - i don't see a free market, just subsidised trade and  
monopolies. There's also the vandalism of the currency speculators making money from 
(phantom virtual) capital whilst adding no value to society whatsoever. In terms of 
reform tho it would be interesting to see if the Tobin tax could work

>b) fair trade coffee is just so rich people can think
>they are doing good to the world, it is not the future
>(that whole 'greenwash' thing...)

i hear what you're saying , but pragmatically i think fair trade is helping some 
farmers, but like you say, you have to be able to afford it in the west, which when you 
are working in a Mcjob, isn't as easy as it could be. One element of this is that we've 
had a flawed view of how much commodities cost as the market doesn't allow for concepts 
such as a decent wages (or in the case of industrialised farming, animal 
welfare/environmental protection) , so we're used to paying rock bottom for our 
food/drink.

i know what you mean with the greenwash thing -  with organic food  - the same 
supermarkets that have an expensive organic range are encouraging a race to the bottom 
in standards for other food by their horrendous purchasing stategies/threats , so there 
is an inherent contradiction there in terms of where this is going.  

ste