[Wolves] ubuntu on windows

Alan Pope alan at popey.com
Fri Apr 1 15:00:34 UTC 2016

Hi Pete,

On 1 April 2016 at 15:26, Peter Cannon <dick_turpin at archlinux.us> wrote:
> On 01/04/16 14:51, Alan Pope wrote:
>> Everyone is wrong except Pete. Of course. We wouldn't have it any other way.
> Nope, I suspect I would admit I was wrong far more than you ever would. In fact I challenge you to demonstrate an instance whereby you admitted you were wrong. I await hell to freeze over.

There was this one time...

>>> I'm glad FOSS apps are being ported, used, implemented, configured, created, developed and any other term you're comfortable with, to run on Windows. I have been a lone voice for 15 years in saying that we should be trying to get FOSS onto Windows.
>> No you haven't. Many people have been saying this for years. It's
>> pretty much a foregone conclusion that an easy route to better FOSS
>> adoption is to go where the users are. That's why many of us advocate
>> slowly moving people over to desktop apps like Thunderbird and GIMP on
>> Windows, and when the user (and OS) is ready (and willing), swap out
>> the OS for a Freeer one. This is a no brainer, everyone knows this.
> What? What a massive turn around you're presenting. There was and has been very few people who have wanted a close association how many calls for "Microsoft should die" has there been? How many people bayed at the wind with the Novell - Microsoft deal?

I don't align myself with those people, never did. They always seemed
like extremists to me. Not fond of that.

I'm not a massive fan of Microsoft of yore. Personally I had to deal
with the Novel / DR-DOS nonsense, and numerous issues in early Windows
3.1 through Windows NT which turned me off.

>> Despite your looks Pete, you're not the Dalai Lama.
> Never said I was, and despite your looks you're neither Elvis or the king. but hey I'm willing to swap personal insults if you need to descend to that?

The humourous intent was missed there.

You said:-

"I have been a lone voice for 15 years in saying that we should be
trying to get FOSS onto Windows."

My reply was to that. You were painting yourself as the single lone
voice of reason here, when it's clear many of us in the FOSS community
were happy to help people across the chasm by advocating the use of
Free software on top of non-free platforms.

>>> Ubuntu had Microsoft listed as bug number one for years and many Ubuntu users vented their venom at Microsoft on a daily basis, now suddenly the hypocrites are all "Ooh look how successful we are now our names on Windows 10" Strikes me I'm beginning to be the last one left who has stuck by what they've said over the last 15 years.
>> The Ubuntu community (and indeed the wider free software community)
>> isn't one big amorphous blob with a single conciousness. People have
>> differing opinions on these matters. Some are also willing to change
>> their views over the passage of time, based on new information. Might
>> want to take a look at that methodology Pete, it's quite liberating.
> I have no idea what the point is you're trying to make there? So are you saying Ubuntu did not list Microsoft as bug number one then? I'm confused? Oh wait, that's called deflection isn't it? Please try and stick to the point raised. My wife dose that starts talking about something else rather than answering the question.

My point was that the world changes. Companies, people, opinions
change. You seemed to be asserting that there is one opinion set in
stone on a bug report, and nothing could possibly change from that
point of view. I was merely highlighting that change happens.

Bug 1 was always a symbolic thing. People made far too much of a big
deal about it.

>>> What I despise is claims that sed. awk, and grep are Ubuntu simply because they are in the Ubuntu repo's they're not. Are you trying to tell me Thunderbird, Libre Office and Gimp are Ubuntu because they they're in the Ubuntu repos? Less brave or informed people might fall for that outrageous claim I do not.
>> Where did anyone claim sed / awk or grep are in and of themselves
>> "Ubuntu"? Ubuntu is a project which collects the best in free software
>> and packages it up in an easy to use way.
> You did! Don't you know what you wrote?
> "It is. It's bash, awk, sed, and all the other lovely command line tools from the Ubuntu archive that I know you love to play with."
> You wrote that in response to me saying it was not Ubuntu.

You're conflating two things.

Ubuntu (like Red Hat and SUSE) is a distro comprising a load of free software.

You repeatedly said that what was shown off was "not Ubuntu". I agree
that "awk isn't Ubuntu". It's Ubuntu in terms of a giant tarball
filesystem which was built on a Canonical server somewhere which
consists of many free software programs. I didn't say "awk is Ubuntu".
The entire body of work is "Ubuntu". Or Red Hat, or SUSE or whatever
distro you use. Hand someone a CD containing Fedora and when someone
asks "what's that?" you wouldn't say "Well, it's Linux kernel, awk,
sed, perl, python...", you'd say "It's Fedora".

Similarly when Microsoft have made it possible to run common Linux
binaries, and they're in the form of a tarball which was built on a
Canonical server, we call that "Ubuntu".

> We all remember when Ubuntu tried to rebrand Banshee. :-P

We didn't, but whatever.

>>> So to reiterate, Huzzah for FOSS coming to Windows. And as for the other stuff more fool you for being gullible or too scared to speak up.
>> I've had people "speak up" to me privately about this thread Pete. I
>> would imagine they didn't do so publicly, for fear of being on the
>> receiving end of more of your bile. Just a guess.
> Pictures or it never happened.
> You can try and make me look a villain Allen, it won't work. Like you I've had people agree with me. I'm not sure this is about "I've got more supporters than you" though. This is about personal opinions and view points.

I'm not painting you a villan Pete. But your "more fool you for being
gullible or too scared to speak up" implies "Anyone who doesn't speak
up clearly agrees with me", which is clearly not the case. Some just
don't want to.

> Apart from this email (My Elvis comment) show me one insult I've aimed at you personally? None. But here's just a couple of comments from you.
> "Despite your looks Pete, you're not the Dalai Lama."
> "For fear of being on the receiving end of more of your bile"

I stand by them.


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