[Wylug-help] Dabs & Phoenix

[Frank Shute]

On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 11:12:38PM +0000, Daniel Walker wrote:
>
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> On Sunday 02 March 2003 9:08 pm, you wrote:
> > > I can't order anything.
> >
> > As a matter of principle, I now take my business elsewhere. If they
>
> Well, I did too, eventually. Cost me about the same once you factor in
> something else I wanted that was 7 quid on Dabs and 3.20 on Microwarehouse..

Result!

>
> > want my business then they have to fix their crappy website.
> > BTW, it did used to work (sort-of) before they `upgraded' it.
>
> And there's no phone number. Tch.

I've noticed that these broken sites usually give no contact info - a
further sure sign of incompetence.

>
> > > Mind, it gets as far as emailing me to tell me "We're delighted you've
> > > opened an account with us", but then claims it's database iis knackered.
> > > Is this normal OS browser experience?
> >
> > Yeah, it's the normal experience for any number of sites unfortunately
>
> I note Amazon, dvd.co.uk, and assorted other sites have no trouble
> at all with Phoenix. So it's possible...

Well Amazon of course use Linux and perl so I guess their developers
probably use that to develop on also.

>
> I've never found a shopping site that works with Lynx, mind. How do blind
> people order stuff?

A few years ago, due to hardware restrictions, all I could use was
Lynx so now I try and check out all my pages with Lynx.

Most sites don't use alt tags though & most sites wouldn't validate in
a month of sundays.

>
> >
> > Looking at the source for this page at Dabs:
> >
> > http://www.dabs.com/products/prod-info3-info.asp?&m=y&quicklinx=139L
> >
> > it starts:
> >
> > <!-- Browcap Section -->
> > <script language="javascript"><!--
> > 	IE4Compat = ((navigator.appName == "Microsoft Internet Explorer") && ...
> >
> > They then proceed to use & abuse Javascript thus locking out
> > non-IE users whilst simultaneously producing a page that isn't
> > remotely compliant with any w3c standard in any way.
>
> But it has an NS6 compatibility mode. Is there any sane reason why an
> NS6-compatible  site wouldn't work with Moz, apart from sheer laziness on the
> part of the programmers? ("Never attribute to malice what can be adequately
> explained by stupidity" - Nick Diamos)

I'm sure you're right - it's a combination of laziness & incompetence.
If you look at the source for the page I gave above you'll see that
there's this:

function makeVisible(theDiv)
{

	if (IE4Compat)
	{
	<snip>
	}
}

err, where's the `else' statement? Duh. The developer has not checked
this page in anything other than IE4.

Why is he doing this in the first place? Just write html that is
conformant with a w3c DTD; if the clients browser can't handle it then
they'll eventually get the message and install a compliant browser.

>
> > Unfortunately, by using navigator.appName I don't think you can get
> > around it by changing your user agent string - some lame sites parse
> > navigator.userAgent
>
> The only reason I can see to do that would be to make the text size in IE6
> make some decent sense.

I can't really make out what the hell the developer was up to. AFAIK
there are no showstopping bugs in any of the browsers but when you
start to stuff around writing your site around what navigator.appName
returns you'll end up with a showstopper like the one above.

>
> > I'd like to know where this annoying practice comes from, it's just
> > not necessary, & they lose business & credibility.
> >
> > I think I might write to the MD & see if I get any reaction.
>
> I emailed them to moan, but no response as yet.

I will write but when questioned by the PHB the developer is likely to
give him some flannel about browser incompatabilities rather than:
"Sorry, I'm thick. I don't know what the hell I'm doing & my code is
broken. But no I didn't charge you too much to build a site that
doesn't work."

--

 Frank

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
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 Tel: 01423 323019
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http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/

Those WMD in perspective:

   "The 1995 nerve agent attack in Tokyo was carried out by a group of
   20 or 30 people, some with scientific training and access to a
   well-equipped lab. They killed 12 people.

   Last week, a single lunatic with a bottle of gasoline (petrol)
   killed 133 on a Korean subway."

   http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/2/24/21408/4742