[YLUG] Grub

[Alex Howells]

On 09/12/2007, Mike Cohler <mike.cohler at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 09/12/2007, Alex Howells <alex.howells at 0wn3d.us> wrote:
> > On 09/12/2007, Robert Hulme <rob at robhulme.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I'd like to point out that there were a few anonymous comments /
> > > discussions in the IRC channel to the effect that it might be a good
> > > idea to ditch Fedora Core and try out a different distro.
> >
> > .. possibly one that doesn't change drastically every release, one
> > that has a good concept of "long term" support, basically one which
> > isn't an unstable warzone (aka: testing ground) for the latest and
> > greatest rubbish from Red Hat.
> >
> > *cough* Perhaps now would be a good time to suggest Debian if this is
> > a server, or Ubuntu for desktops? ;)
> >
> Well - the US NSA uses RHEL which is the commercial version of Fedora - and
> Linus himself uses Fedora - so I doubt if it is that bad! Sure Fedora is
> cutting edge and sometimes it needs to be "honed" for a specific system, but
> you get a really up to date distro with a cutting edge kernel which works
> for the vast majority of users.  However I would say that it is not a Linux
> beginner's distro.  If you are new to Linux and want a safe distro and are
> running a standard laptop or desktop then maybe Ubuntu or Debian are perhaps
> more suitable. However if you want a secure system running server services
> and are happy to hack and fine-tune the system then I feel that Fedora is
> about right - but your mileage may vary.

I believe my main criticism of Fedora is the 'forced' continual
upgrade process.  Too often I've seen folks take servers, install
Fedora Core and then fail to upgrade them - it would be unfair to
blame the user here, often they aren't even aware of the problem until
it's too late.  When they do come to upgrade, it's some "insane" route
like FC4 -> F8 which is practically *impossible* to do direct - and
completely reinstalling a server is rarely a plausible option.

I'd also argue that the project takes a somewhat cavalier attitude to
supporting anyone running something 'legacy' - the rhetoric from
developers is always, "Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade" with little thought
to the consequences of downtime, or indeed errata which only turn up
*after* a new version is released to the masses.  Anything older than
CURRENT-1 is treated like a second-class citizen; security updates are
*not* always backported in a timely manner, further exacerbating the
problem regarding the very users I mentioned previously - they are
left vulnerable, and don't even know it :(

... cue evil l33t h4xx0r5 from China who take over the server and
start doing DDoS with it...

The chaps you've mentioned who use Fedora definitely have their
reasons, they've made an educated choice.  Ironically the two examples
you've given are both 'extreme expert' users, if I were forced to
classify them -- they both have *very* specific use-cases for the
platform and it's fantastic that Fedora suits them in that regard.
However, if that is the target market for Fedora, they should make
that clear and not be hawking themselves to the masses who are mostly
oblivious and want something "easy" and definitely "without sharp
edges" ;)

I'd almost be tempted to comment that the way you speak about systems
needing to be "honed" suggests a background on Gentoo Linux!

> If you need a guaranteed stable version and are prepared to pay for it you
> can always pay for RHEL and have almost the same advantages as with Fedora
> but more guaranteed stability.

Or if you want decent stability *without* paying for it, a "sane"
guarantee that releases aren't going to happen every six months and
you *wont* be stuck doing the impossible - perhaps you should evaluate
Debian GNU/Linux?

(No that isn't an invitation for everyone to hop on the ML bandwagon
with 'caveman' jokes about Debian. Heard 'em all.)

> This is just my opinion and yours may be different!

Heh, definitely is ;)  I'll not even get started griping about how
utterly slow and shit the package management is in Fedora or you'll be
reading this until at least Christmas 2009 :-P